Three Loves, Three Lenses?

[BrutalImage]

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Okay -- I am stumped.

 

I just picked up an M8... and would be most grateful for some advice on lenses:

 

I'd love to shoot portraits in natural and low light situations... architecture.... and big landscapes.

 

I purchased a Summicron f2 / 50mm (as a decent starter lens) and have been told everything from its "perfect" to "bad choice: return it for the Summilux 1.5 / 50mm ASPH". "Advice" (if one could call it that) for best lenses for the other applications has been all over the place.

 

The not-so-friendly people at the local Leica dealer sniffed at me, shoved a grey lens brochure in my hands and shooed me out the door.... checkbook in hand(!)

 

Help would be most appreciated!

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[stunsworth]

Sounds like you shopped at The Classic Camera <grin>

 

The 50mm Summicron is an excellent lens (whatever the vintage), the f1.4 Summilux is probably a better lens - I don't have one, but evertone who does seems to rate it as the best lens they've ever used in terms of sharpness and 'look' - but that doesn't mean that the Summicron is anything other than fantastic.

 

The only thing I would say is that you may find it a bit long for a general lens given the M8's crop factor. The 3 lenses I use most on M8 are a 50mm Summicron, 35mm ASPH Summicron and 24mm ASPH Elmarit.

[Bertl]

I would prefer to keep the 50mm/2.0 and buy a second lens, for example a 35 or 28 mm lens.

Bertram

[adan]

"I'd love to shoot portraits in natural and low light situations..."

 

The 50 should work very nicely for this, so long as you like "intimate" portraits (i.e. working in the <1 meter range). The 50 on an M8 fills the role of a 75-85 on film, close enough. Enough DOF to get both eyes sharp while still blurring the background nicely wide open.

 

"... architecture.... and big landscapes. "

 

Sounds like the Voigtlander 15mm - at least that's what I use for these kinds of shots. Could substitute the Leica 16/18/21, although my impression from others' shots is that that lens has a bit more fisheye-type distortion. Not a good thing for most architecture (although if you shoot the "pickled Gherkin" or the London City Council bldg I guess no one would notice - wink!)

 

OTOH the 16/18/21 would make your third lens choice easy - a 28 fits perfectly between the long end of the Tri-Elmar Superwide and your 50. Choose between the f/2.8 ASPH for classic tiny Leica size and filter-swapping with your 50, or the f/2 ASPH for low light.

[k_g_wolf ✝]

In case they let you go WITH your chequebook in your hands go for the current 2.8/ 28 mm asph.-version of the ELMARIT.

 

As far as size and optical quality is concerned this lens is a perfect match for the M8. Just as compact as the SUMMICRON 35 mm lens with any LEICA-M and because of the cropfactor on M8 the 28 mm it behaves like a 35 mm lens on 135 mm-film.

 

In case 28 mm is not wide enough for your style of photopgraphy, try a 24 or even the WATE (16-18-21 mm) ...

 

It´s all a matter of the remaining cheques.

 

 

 

Best

[ho_co]

The 50/2 is the standard and always has been. There's nothing wrong with it. Leica lens guru Erwin Puts remarked about the 50/1.4 that it is the first time that a 1.4 has been as good as a 50. In other words, the Summilux is a breakthrough design because it isn't worse than the f/2.

 

For available light portraits the 50 Summicron is fine, but the 50 Summilux might be a bit better, depending on how low light you want to go to.

 

Some people prefer the 75 Summicron. Might be just the ticket if the 50 isn't long enough.

 

Landscapes--add maybe a 28 or a 35, maybe a 24. Consider also the Tri-Elmar 28-35-50. Very versatile but not quite as sharp as the three focal lengths it covers.

 

Architecture--again, the most versatile lens is the Tri-Elmar 16-18-21, but it also has a bit more distortion at the 16mm end, ca 3%, too much for some architectural photogs, but fixable in Photoshop.

 

Otherwise look into the 21 mm.

 

Also, there are quite usable lenses made by Zeiss for somewhat less money and by Cosina-Voigtländer for quite a bit less money. They offer excellent value-for-expenditure, though they obviously don't participate in the Leica lens-coding scheme.

 

So there we are: six different focal lengths so far. You're lucky, Dudley, that the M8 has such a small range of focal lengths available, and in general only one or two different models in each. And remember, they're all good.

 

First off, go to a different dealer. That will do wonders to clear the mind!

 

Oh, just a warning--you started off with "Okay -- I am stumped." That may not be quite right. If you're like most of us, that should read, "Okay -- I am hooked."

 

--HC

[stunsworth]

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One other thing, An advantage of the M series is that you can play around with the frame selector lever to see the effect of the various focal lengths. That may enable you to get an idea for what suits you best before buying.

[Realphotos]

Okay -- I am stumped.

 

I just picked up an M8... and would be most grateful for some advice on lenses:

 

I'd love to shoot portraits in natural and low light situations... architecture.... and big landscapes.

 

I purchased a Summicron f2 / 50mm (as a decent starter lens) and have been told everything from its "perfect" to "bad choice: return it for the Summilux 1.5 / 50mm ASPH". "Advice" (if one could call it that) for best lenses for the other applications has been all over the place.

 

The not-so-friendly people at the local Leica dealer sniffed at me, shoved a grey lens brochure in my hands and shooed me out the door.... checkbook in hand(!)

 

Help would be most appreciated!

 

 

There is no one answer to your question but I have just had a recent experiance that may help you weight up the "three loves to be".

(You mention people selling Leica lenses at retail. Beware these can be a varied group of experianced to inexperianced photographers to salesmen who may only know one thing and that is how to sell people with the Leica bug more.......

From my space I am running "R" & "M" Film & Digital and more lenses than you have thought about. I want to be be very clear about one thing and that is way beyond the focal lenght of your lenses I have come to know the "characteristic"of each lense. The way a picture can be drawn. Every lense is a brush.) So with a little experiance of fixed focal lenghts and zooms bla, film results versus digital. AND all of this is to say one thing. I recently had to send my Tri Elmar 28-35-50 Version 2 to solms for codeing. Well I am telling you this is the most incredibly underated lense. If you have to walk out the door with one lense two bodies {M8 (dial up the speed needed) & M7 film speeds anticipated) and do a killer job on whatever your thing is (street, snow, Landscape etc) well you cannot beat it}. Just remember history is history. Film speed now is fast and high high quality. The M8 can run at 160-320-640 without a drama so try this lense and be surprised. I am hot about this because while its been away and I have missed it. It may be the ugly sister that can only offer f4 and I have had all these are lenses with the big Bokeh factor, but I tell you you need a camera ready to go at the right momennt no delays to pull that picture. With this "ZOOM" lense on your M8 you have three ways to deal to a subject without any delays.

This is the most underated modern high quality lense that Leica have made.

Lets say it like this. This lense has better quality characteristics than any lense that Cartier-Bresson used. It has a different Bokeh effect but our new photoshop dark room is different (better) than previous times so we can do a little more than dodge and burn!

So I am saying try this lense and WITH your talents create some terrific results.

There is more but this make a point which may suggest some ways forward.

A great Lense+the ubiquitous M8+your talent+your digital dark room+ and a forum like this that leads you to all sorts of nuasnces of .......

These are circumstances that we have never had in photography. Cast back all you like , wish for all you want, its just never ever been better.

 

Jump now.

[j. borger]

I used a 50 summicron (current model) before i got the 50 lux asph.

It is an outstanding lens ..... if i look at the pictures i took with it ... i wonder why i even bothered getting the lux asph!

Now i am sitting on the fence buying a rigid summicron from 1957 .....

There is just more to a lens than technical excellence......

[Eoin]

First piece of advice is change where you shop!. If that's the attitude of the sales people whom have NO interest in discussing your needs or offering advice are not worthy of your business. Find someone who is.

 

The 50 is a nice focal length for portraits with the M8, the 75 can sometimes just be that too tight. But either way the 50 cron seems less stark than the modern Asph's and as such can complement your subject. Good first choice!.

 

For the subjects you describe, architecture and big landscapes. Your choices are only limited by how much kit and how deep your pockets are. Primes eg CV15 & 21, 24, 28, 35 won't be long emptying your bank account but as a starter lens given your choice of subjects I'd recommend the Tri-Elmar 16-18-21. By all accounts it seems to deliver excellent quality.

 

For my own choice I decided on the 21 Asph and the 35 Asph, I'm not really a wide shooter but I do like the 21 Elmarit Asph for the width (full viewfinder) and the perspective. It's truly a stunning lens but sadly gets little use due to my choice of subject.

 

The 35 summilux Asph, again a stunning lens with such quality seems to be the most used lens on my camera. It would be the perfect all round lens if it was not for the crop factor of the M8, I just wish it was that small bit wider for general shooting, perhaps a 28mm Summicron Asph would be a better choice here but I love the colour and the contrast the 35 imparts and I'm having a hard time justifying it's removal from my line up and no funds to add the 28

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is careful consideration needs to be placed into the choice of focal lengths and to this end I'd recommend you use the frameline selector on your new M8 for a few weeks, moving it to visualize what the effective field of view you'd get if you used a given focal length.

 

But if your truly a wide shooter, the Tri-Elmar is worth having a serious look at.

[chris_tribble]

I own from 15 CV through to 135 3.5 except for the 24.

 

If I only had ONE lens it would be the 28 ASPH

 

If I was starting from the base of the 50 and wanted two more Leica lenses for the M8, I'd go for the combination of either the 24 or 28 ASPH (this latter is the lens I use ALL the time - though the 24 might have advantages given the limitations of the crop factor) + your 50 + a 75

 

In the days of film 28 + 50 + 90 covered most of my needs - other lenses were always nice to have, but not essential, but there was a contradiction in that if I wanted only ONE light compact lens for light travel I'd take a 35 f2.

 

With the M8, a near perfect travel setup is the M8 + 28 on its own or + 50. For jobs where you want more flexibility, 4 lenses seems to make sense. 15 + 28 + 50 + 75. Still light enough in a little Domke satchel and the 15 CV is SUCH good value.... A 90 or 135 then become specialist tools you may only use rarely ...

 

Obviously this depends on how and what you shoot, but that's my two pennorth.

 

BTW - if you're unhappy with your present dealer (and I think they're the one I use - and they can be surly at times ...) try RG Lewis (who are consistently friendly) or Robert Caplan -- or mail order through Robert White... I stick with the place that is nearest, and over time seem to have won some grudging respect - and do, in fact, get good service...

 

Hope this helps

[lars_bergquist]

If after all this advice you are less in doubt than before, then you must be a very clever man ...

 

The 50 Summicron on the M8 has the image acceptance angle of a (hypothetical) 69 mm lens on a full format 35 mm camera. So it is indeed a bit long for general photography, but an excellent 'people lens'. If by 'portrait' you mean 'head and top of the shoulders', then it is too short; you should never go closer to a portrait subject than 7 ft/2 meters, or you will have perspectival distortion, i.e. big nose caricatures. This, note, goes for every damn focal length there is! So in this case, 75 mm is better. The Cosina/Voigtländer 75 is a very good lens, BTW.

 

The Summilux is a fabulous lens, but its practical superiority to the 'cron is restricted to two points: a) The maximum speed of 1.4, and, greater resistance to flare in severely backlighted situations.

 

But if you want to stay with the 50 mm Summicron, and why not, then your next choice should be a wider lens. The step to 35 mm is too short—this is in effect the new standard lens length. But 28 mm looks good. The 28 + 50 combo is one I like for 'combat in built-up areas'. Which 28 you prefer is a matter between you and your Significant Bank Account. The 24 is also a very good lens, especially on the M8, and the widest lens with a frame in the finder. So, 50 + 28 or 50 + 24 should be your choice. Restrict yourself to these two lenses at first, and learn to use them to the full, before you fall for anything longer or shorter. Especially the 15 mm C/V, which I do love, but as an 'occasional lens' only!

 

The old man from the Age of Fixed Lenses

[tom0511]

I would go as follows:

21/2.8asph

28/2.0asph

50/1.4asph , because its f1.4 and I like the smooth bokeh, however the 50/2.0 is a very goodlens as well

 

This combo gives you a set of fast lenses, with low distorsion and very nice tones and bokeh.

I also find the 21/2.8 and the 28/2.0 work well on digital because they are not too contrasty. I like the way they draw. Same is true for the TE.

 

My 50/1.4asph is I think more like 52mm and I do use it much more than 75 and 90mm, even for portrits.

 

Personally I also like to use the TE 28-35-50 a lot, but its not fast and it shows some distorsion at 28mm which might be a problem for your architecture.

 

Cheers, Tom

[scott kirkpatrick]

My recommendation, FWIW, since you find the simplicity of the older 50 Summicron feels right to you, would be to stay with the smaller lenses, 35/2.0 or 28/2.8 and by all means the CV15/4.5. Use camera stores to try them out. Be shameless in insisting on this. See how they feel, how the view looks through their frame or finder. I also have the 24/2.8, which takes fabulous pictures, but feels big and clumsy along side the others. And I ordered but have not received a 75/2.0 on the bleeding edge 30% deal, because I like a particular 100mm (eff) lens on a DSLR. We'll see how that one works out.

 

scott

[grober]

The 50 Summicron was my first Leica lens on I double-stroke M3 I used a lot over 40 years ago. Although I don't own this lens today, I'd never say that a clean 50 'Cron (of any generation) was anything other but a perfect starter lens and great all around performer. (Yes the current 50 'Lux is a better lens, if you can afford it.)

 

You next lens needs to be a 28, probably selected in the following priority: 28 'Cron, 28 Elmarit, 28 Ultron, 28 Zeiss ZM, 28/2.8 Canon, 28/3.5 CV, 28/3.5 Canon. (My personal top pick is #1 on this subjective list.)

 

Other item you may want to buy right away? Either the Leica or Manfrotto table tripod. The self-timer on the M8 imbues it with more value as long as I can find a sturdy place on which it can rest during use.

 

-g

[hahn73]

Interesting that no one ever mentions the Zeiss 21mm 2.8 Biogon. IMHO, it's a highly underestimated lens. I actually like it a lot at its focal length for a good all-purpose lens. Almost zero distortion. SHARP contrast. And I absolutely LOVE the warm color rendition. So anyways, I'm giving it the mention that it deserves.

[BrutalImage]

gosh! i am simply shocked at the wealth of knowledge, here. and, the response is amazing. i have received more useful information here than TWO visits to a certain London Leica dealership. (yes, i went back! it was the masochist in me that made me do it)

 

the summicrom arrives in a few days. i am going to take the advice of a certain wise sage -- learn to use what you have -- before i put another slight dent in the current account for Leica godliness.