CheshireCat Posted September 21, 2014 Share #21 Posted September 21, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) It was DEFINITELY the battery at fault. How can you be sure ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 21, 2014 Posted September 21, 2014 Hi CheshireCat, Take a look here My Lockups have stopped. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted September 21, 2014 Share #22 Posted September 21, 2014 How do you delete old files from the card after import ? The usual way. Just format your card with SD Formatter, then format it again in the camera and you're done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted September 21, 2014 Share #23 Posted September 21, 2014 What happens if you don't format it second time "in the camera"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 21, 2014 Share #24 Posted September 21, 2014 What happens if you don't format it second time "in the camera"? The camera explodes. Just kidding . Nothing happens apparently but formatting again in the camera does not slow down the latter so i do it as a precaution. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunil Posted September 22, 2014 Share #25 Posted September 22, 2014 I have very few lock ups with my M240 after formatting the SD card once. However I complemented my camera bag with a M6, and can report that this new (old) camera does not seem to have this lock up problem Yeah, I tried replicating the M240 problem with the M6 (rapid succession of bracketed shots) but my thumb froze up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share #26 Posted September 22, 2014 UPDATE It seems if you are at or near filling the buffer and you make one too many exposures while camera is writing to a nearly full buffer you get a sort of old style lockup, but off/on corrects it and battery removal not required so far. In the heat of the moment I am not trying to remember exactly where and what happens as I will lose the moment of a sunset or sunrise since what and where I am shooting, one has just a few minutes to get it right before the moment has passed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 22, 2014 Share #27 Posted September 22, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do you lose any images in the process? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share #28 Posted September 22, 2014 Do you lose any images in the process? I think not. Since I am shooting tons of panoramas at various exposures it has not been a concern although I am just backing up on this trip and not importing into LR so far-no time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted September 22, 2014 I think not. Since I am shooting tons of panoramas at various exposures it has not been a concern although I am just backing up on this trip and not importing into LR so far-no time. Thanks. That sounds like you finally made real progress! Terrific! I wish you continued good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share #30 Posted September 27, 2014 Frankly, I realized on this trip out K-H's way that after perhaps 15-18 shots while shooting panoramas at various manual exposure bracketing levels that the red light blinks just a few seconds and stops which tends to tell me that it is writing much faster to the same Sandisk 95 mb/s cards as I used on my M240 with lockups and shooting the same way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted September 28, 2014 Author Share #31 Posted September 28, 2014 Another Update- I am finally home and have completed my download into LR of about 4000 images, many taken with my M-P and also some taken with my M240. Upon reviewing various image folders in LR, I have discovered many images taken months ago and from completely different trips are interspersed with new images just recently taken. I have always reformatted the Sandisk 64Gb 95mb/s cards in camera. However, I do believe that I must "overwrite" the cards in order to in effect put 1's and 0's all over the cards since simple reformating in camera has not "erased" previous images taken which somehow remain on the cards from time to time and with no rhyme or reason. I now realize this as being a problem because whenever the M-P had a hiccup during recent shooting, it was around where the old remaining images on the SD cards still resided. If this is the cause of my lockups and freezes then a solution is easily at hand. I will overwrite my SD cards in camera. I will followup on this when out shooting again in order to see if this solves the persistent lockup and freeze problem. Any expert comment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 28, 2014 Share #32 Posted September 28, 2014 I'm no expert at all but as suggested previously, i would format my cards with SD Formatter (once is enough normally) and format them again in the camera as a precaution. If you want to put zeros on your cards, you may wish to use the "Overwrite Format" option of SD Formatter but i doubt that it is necessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonathanP Posted September 28, 2014 Share #33 Posted September 28, 2014 Upon reviewing various image folders in LR, I have discovered many images taken months ago and from completely different trips are interspersed with new images just recently taken. Are you sure those are really different images? It sounds like the ImageUniqueID bug I described here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/275209-leica-m-240-image-unique-id-2.html#post2775388 I wasn't expecting Leica's dodgy code to produce a duplicate ImageUniqueId quite so quickly, but today I load some pictures into Lightroom and one of my images shows a preview of a picture that I took on holiday 2 months ago! Examining the raw file in RawDigger I find that both have a "unique" image ID of 25046. This really confuses Lightroom's cache. The way to tell is to select one of the "old" images, go into the develop module and make an adjustment - see if the new image then appears. The bug is causing Lightroom to display an old preview image from its cache (after making the new image appear, you may then see the new image in place of the old one if you look back in Lightroom). This bug is Leica not implementing the DNG spec correctly. Its a simple bug to fix - currently Leica appears to use a clock count (roughly 1500/sec) from camera switch on for the ImageUniqueID field. Randomising this field would be easy since its so large - add in any combinations of date, time, shutter count etc - loads of options to get it random enough to eliminate this problem. And while they are at it, the RawDataUniqueID needs the same fix as well... Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted September 28, 2014 Share #34 Posted September 28, 2014 I now realize this as being a problem because whenever the M-P had a hiccup during recent shooting, it was around where the old remaining images on the SD cards still resided. If this is the cause of my lockups and freezes then a solution is easily at hand. I'm afraid that most probably you are observing an effect and not the cause of the problem.Erasing an image just removes the entry from the directory and marks the space occupied by the image as available for whatever purpose needs some space.Formatting an SD card (without overwriting) merely writes a set of empty directories (and some additional bookkeeping data) to the card. The process, too, leaves all discarded directory entries and - again - the contents of all images on your card to be overwritten at leisure at a later time.Hence, if you find in your directory the heading of a new image and within that all or part of an old image, the camera (that is, the computer within your camera) has written the new directory entry but has not yet written the content of the image, or not all of it.The reasons for this are either that the computer has stalled for some reason between writing the entry in the directory and the actual image or that is has been prevented from doing so by sudden and unexpected removal of the card or the battery. If the computer has stalled, it could be because of some malfunctioning hardware or software in the camera or because the card had some kind of problem and did not reply the answers expected by the camera within a reasonable time frame.Hence, there are three places we can look for the source of the problem: the camera itself, the SD card or the user.From long experience with computers I can state with some authority that removing the source of power or a storage medium while writing is supposed to be in progress will most likely damage the data being written. This might be just the body of the image, but it might be just as soon part of the directory or the bookkeeping data on the card. In any event, I'd consider any card in the camera as highly unsafe for further use until it has been formatted again on a computer with a software program which can deal with any kind of error on the card. One such program has been named, which is SDFormatter. I would not trust the camera to do that properly, as I assume that the formatting and card handling software within any camera will only be able to deal with normal situations where everything is as is supposed to be, if that.Questions: when the camera locks up after doing a series of shots, how much time do you usually allow for the camera to resume working before you decide that it is locked up? How do you determine that it is still locked up after some time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 28, 2014 Share #35 Posted September 28, 2014 Are you sure those are really different images? It sounds like the ImageUniqueID bug I described here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/275209-leica-m-240-image-unique-id-2.html#post2775388 ..... errrr...... but algrove, by his own admission, has been using multiple different cameras ..... and therefore the Unique image id may well be unique for that particular camera ..... but hardly unique for ALL cameras..... anyway it is NOT generated in a fashion to be completely random, as when I discussed this at Leica Mayfair on friday it appears that Wetzlar can decode from the camera the true number of actuations. I think Algroves issues are not generated by the cards but by LR and the fact he has been using multiple cameras....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonathanP Posted September 28, 2014 Share #36 Posted September 28, 2014 Well they are not getting the true number of actuations from the ImageUniqueId because it's time based and I get duplicates with only one camera. I suspect they can extract diagnostic info via the USB interface though. If Algroves problem is the ImageUniqueId bug, that's not Lightrooms problem but Leica not implementing the DNG and EXIF specs correctly. The images with the duplicate Id could be fixed with ExifTool or similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted September 28, 2014 Share #37 Posted September 28, 2014 Another Update- I am finally home and have completed my download into LR of about 4000 images, many taken with my M-P and also some taken with my M240. Upon reviewing various image folders in LR, I have discovered many images taken months ago and from completely different trips are interspersed with new images just recently taken. I have always reformatted the Sandisk 64Gb 95mb/s cards in camera. However, I do believe that I must "overwrite" the cards in order to in effect put 1's and 0's all over the cards since simple reformating in camera has not "erased" previous images taken which somehow remain on the cards from time to time and with no rhyme or reason. I now realize this as being a problem because whenever the M-P had a hiccup during recent shooting, it was around where the old remaining images on the SD cards still resided. If this is the cause of my lockups and freezes then a solution is easily at hand. I will overwrite my SD cards in camera. I will followup on this when out shooting again in order to see if this solves the persistent lockup and freeze problem. Any expert comment? It sounds like you have a corrupt file system. I take it that immediately after formatting the Card in the camera that there are no images on it and it appears to be empty. Most likely cause of a file system corruption would be turning the camera off while it is still writing to the SD Card. Normally you would expect a camera to protect against this by keeping the power on until the writes were finished, however it would not surprise me if that was not the case for Leica. Removing the battery would have the same effect. Having said that, it seems from reports here that when the "buffer is full" the camera can lock up. Perhaps that also can corrupt the file system (as the camera locking up might also result in a corrupted file system). Its possible one problem causes the other. Are you doing something like that? The camera format is probably working fine, the FAT format is not difficult, and data from old files being left around is perfectly normal - so long that the file system is not corrupt those old files do not really exist. The reason NOT to wipe them out (1's or 0's) during format is that it takes a long time and it wears out the SD Memory. I'm getting something similar on my Ricoh GR from time to time, not really sure the cause, but the camera does not operate until the offending file is removed. And sometimes no file is written. Had it also with a Fuji XPro1, a corrupted file would hang the camera during playback. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 28, 2014 Share #38 Posted September 28, 2014 IIRC a FW update for the M9 assured that writing to card would continue if the M9 was switched off. Of course, removing battery is a different story. How is this implemented in the M240? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 28, 2014 Share #39 Posted September 28, 2014 The same as in all other cameras i've used so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 28, 2014 Share #40 Posted September 28, 2014 The same as in all other cameras i've used so far. Thanks. So Lou (algrove) should be fine switching off the camera and not removing the battery. That is unless the camera hanging contributes to his problems or another FW bug, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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