Are we going to buy the new analogue M?

[NB23]

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The MP (which I have) is just a warmed over M6 and the Leica "marketing product" par excellence.

 

Yeah right. That's shows just how much you don't know.

 

As a start, the Leica M6 is ZINC.

The Leica MP is painted BRASS.

 

This single difference makes the M6 a junk Leica, one that I'll absolutely never ever own or touch, not even with a stick.

And then you have all the other differenced between them (a much improved metering/electronic system is another difference). And more...

[wattsy]

Yeah right. That's shows just how much you don't know.

...blah blah...

 

No need to have a little girly fit. I know the differences. It's just fluff.

Edited September 22, 2014 by wattsy

[NB23]

No need to have a little girly fit. I know the differences. It's just fluff.

 

I didn't know you we're joking, sorry...

[jdsheepdog]

Still not as cool as my black M4:p

 

Which, in turn, is not as cool as my silver M3

[pico]

Which, in turn, is not as cool as my silver M3

 

 

For those who have not used an M3 with 50mm lens - imagine shooting with both eyes open with almost perfect correspondence.

[philipus]

I handled the M-A at photokina on Sunday and noticed a few things.

 

The shutter button is very much like that on the non-metered Ms I've shot (M3 and M4). It can certainly be adjusted, but the copy I tried had a fairly firm, but pleasant, resistance. It didn't feel loose at all. The shutter activated about halfway down, I'd say.

 

The film wind had the fine-mechanical feel of a well-oiled classic M. One can really feel as one advances the film how many cogs interact to move the film forward. It resembles my recently-serviced M4 in this respect. It is a nice feeling.

 

The shutter speed dial, however, surprised me quite a bit. It was really quite rough. I know these things change with use but I would have been quite disappointed receiving a camera with such a stiff dial. I would have expected the feel of the dial to match the smooth operation of the rest of the camera.

 

The viewfinder is 0.72 which is what I prefer personally. Some may find the 3x2 frame lines a bit busy. That can obviously be changed later and, who knows, maybe Leica will include the M-A in the ALC programme and allow magnification changes as well. But I am quietly wondering, should one feel the need to have something like frame lines adjusted on a new camera, if one isn't better off buying a classic recently-serviced M that matches one's needs. There is a multitude of choice and one also buys a piece of history.

 

That being said, in terms of product position, I applaud Leica for deciding to produce a "modern classic" non-metered M. I certainly didn't expect it. I think it fits perfectly next to the MP, just like the Monochrom, though many (including I) initially doubted it, fits perfectly alongside the other digital Ms. I hope the M-A will sell well.

 

Philip

[tookaphotoof]

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Yeah right. That's shows just how much you don't know.

 

As a start, the Leica M6 is ZINC.

The Leica MP is painted BRASS.

 

This single difference makes the M6 a junk Leica, one that I'll absolutely never ever own or touch, not even with a stick.

And then you have all the other differenced between them (a much improved metering/electronic system is another difference). And more...

 

Totally agree, the brass will make your pictures appear so much nicer on film compared to that piece of junk Leica...

In real life I have them both and notice no difference in the end result.

[aldash]

Is Leica coming out with another "Frankenleica" camera, by putting together parts stolen from the old Leitz camera cemetery? The company's reputation was based on doing a few things well, rather than coming out with as many models/variations as possible, at the greatest speed possible. No wonder the townspeople there are getting ready to light their torches to march on the monster!

 

Ah, for the good old days when Leica owners could count the models on the fingers of one or two hands, and have a maximum of 5-7 great lenses to use. The mechanical models virtually lasted for a lifetime if not abused, and occasionally had a CLA once every 20 years or so. No failed sensors or special batteries.

Combat photographers only had to assure that they carried enough film, but even 35mm could be borrowed from buddies in the field.

 

The pre-war LTM cameras and early M cameras were amazingly well made, such as the M3, M4, and the superb 3G. Even today, the old 50mm Summicron lens is still hard to beat. Later M's were not quite as well made. How many digital M's will still be working well 20 years from now??? By then, they will not even be fixable, due to obsolete circuit and sensor technology. My grandchild will still be taking great photos with my 3G, M3, and M4. (My M9-P will be a paperweight by then.)

[leicaphilia]

The pre-war LTM cameras and early M cameras were amazingly well made, such as the M3, M4, and the superb 3G. Even today, the old 50mm Summicron lens is still hard to beat. Later M's were not quite as well made. How many digital M's will still be working well 20 years from now??? By then, they will not even be fixable, due to obsolete circuit and sensor technology. My grandchild will still be taking great photos with my 3G, M3, and M4. (My M9-P will be a paperweight by then.)

 

My sentiments exactly. I am constantly amazed that in this age of "consumable" cameras I can still buy a 60 year old camera that functions perfectly and could conceivably be passed down to my grandchildren.

 

Amongst others, I am privileged to own a basically new black M4 made in 1974, and a beat up M2 from the early 60s; also, my favorite, an M5 from 1973. All work perfectly, as good or better than the day they were put together. I've recently sold a beautiful IIIg that worked like new some 55 years after it was sold as new.

 

And this is Leica's conundrum: With all of the mechanical Leicas out there, cameras ridiculously overbuilt and made to last a few lifetimes, is there really a market for these new mechanical film offerings? Whether there is or not, I applaud Wetzler for continuing to make and offer these to us. I think the photographic culture would be sorrily impoverished if we were to arrive at a time when these mechanical jewels were no longer available in sone fashion.

[sblitz]

I am wondering whether in the move to the new production facility they came upon a closet in the old unopened for an extremely long time and found all these unused bits and pieces from M4 and M2 production. And so, with no cost to them (who in the world makes tiny camera-sized brass gears today in any quantity?) they figured why not make a new M4 until all the old parts run out? Just a thought. Personally, I like the idea. Sometimes it is nice to get a new version of an old technology just so all the bumps and scrapes to come are yours and not someone else's history.

[plasticman]

I am wondering whether in the move to the new production facility they came upon a closet in the old unopened for an extremely long time and found all these unused bits and pieces from M4 and M2 production. And so, with no cost to them (who in the world makes tiny camera-sized brass gears today in any quantity?) they figured why not make a new M4 until all the old parts run out? Just a thought.

 

This is how multi-million corporations plan their products - they find some old brass gears in a closet.

[NB23]

Totally agree, the brass will make your pictures appear so much nicer on film compared to that piece of junk Leica...

In real life I have them both and notice no difference in the end result.

 

You are 100% correct. This is why you should be using a smena-8.

 

As for me, a Leica lover and user, I know my Leica Basics.

 

To each their own.

[Jaybob]

Yeah right. That's shows just how much you don't know.

 

As a start, the Leica M6 is ZINC.

The Leica MP is painted BRASS.

 

This single difference makes the M6 a junk Leica, one that I'll absolutely never ever own or touch, not even with a stick.

And then you have all the other differenced between them (a much improved metering/electronic system is another difference). And more...

 

You are 100% correct. This is why you should be using a smena-8.

 

As for me, a Leica lover and user, I know my Leica Basics.

 

To each their own.

 

Just an observation, but you may want to pump your brakes a little with the judgement. Check the emoticons before the quoting and replying.

You're typing is coming across as semi-hostile.

We get it...you're a smart person and you like the Leica. We're on the same team.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Jaybob

[johnwolf]

Truth is I am thinking of getting back into film photography "on the side". I am only too happy Leica continues to "be there" and the chrome M-A is, for me at least, very attractive. So here I hover; first I need to be sure I want to revive my film photography

 

Yeah, that's the thing - to decide first. It's a big step. After much deliberation I tried last year. Twice. Dealing with all the variables of film, processing, and scanning is tough after years of the ease and consistency of digital.

 

I gave up but am still feeling the pull to try once more. I would step in with something you won't lose much on if you decide it's not for you. That would certainly not be a new M-A.

 

John

Edited September 23, 2014 by johnwolf

[bocaburger]

But I am quietly wondering...if one isn't better off buying a classic recently-serviced M ...There is a multitude of choice and one also buys a piece of history.

 

That would be my choice. I had an MP but kept the M4. These days a sweet M4 can be had for a grand, or much less if you want it "distressed" to look like a year-old MP . Add $400 for a full overhaul and it's still a fraction of the cost of a new body and can be resold for very little loss.

 

As to the often-rehashed bit about passing these cameras down to our grandchildren, just because the film Leica will still function doesn't mean they will ever get used. Maybe a few of us will have grandchildren who will go to whatever expense and difficulty there will be to shoot film decades from now, but I wouldn't expect that to be the general case. Certainly not enough for me to sink thousands into a new film Leica today.

[semi-ambivalent]

...expense and difficulty there will be to shoot film decades from now, but I wouldn't expect that to be the general case. Certainly not enough for me to sink thousands into a new film Leica today.

 

Ha! Held hostage by a future about which you can know nothing.

 

s-a

[leicaphilia]

 

As to the often-rehashed bit about passing these cameras down to our grandchildren, just because the film Leica will still function doesn't mean they will ever get used. Maybe a few of us will have grandchildren who will go to whatever expense and difficulty there will be to shoot film decades from now, but I wouldn't expect that to be the general case. Certainly not enough for me to sink thousands into a new film Leica today.

 

What "difficulties" do you anticipate in the future that don't already apply now? Lack of film? Doubtful. Lack of processing? doubtful. Probably whatever difficulties your grandkids experience will be self-imposed, the product of laziness or ignorance.

 

Why, just yesterday i encountered a young guy with a 5x7 view camera in my neighborhood. I asked him where he found his film. He said he didn't shoot film, he was shooting ambrotypes. The point being, of course, that the development of newer, "better" technologies don't automatically consign more established technologies to oblvion.

[jmr237]

What "difficulties" do you anticipate in the future that don't already apply now? Lack of film? Doubtful. Lack of processing? doubtful. Probably whatever difficulties your grandkids experience will be self-imposed, the product of laziness or ignorance.

 

He has a point. I know that you are an ardent advocate of film, both here and on your blog. But the future is uncertain, and none of us know how easy or convenient film will be in 20, 30, 40 or even 50 years. Let's not resort to accusing people of laziness or ignorance. We appreciate your advocacy of film, but you need to allow more room for the possibility of disagreement. The world is not black and white (even if film can be ...).

 

It is not as simple as film going away or not--it's a question of the price and availability of film, chemicals, supplies, and commercial processing/scanning options for those of us who don't want to do it at home. Like many things, it's a matter of degree. Relative to today, none of us know if film will be easier or harder to deal with in the future.

 

I offer these comments as someone who uses film almost exclusively after having sold all of my digital equipment. I applaud Leica for the M-A and I hope film continues to thrive as a niche product for those of us who enjoy it.

[plasticman]

He has a point. I know that you are an ardent advocate of film, both here and on your blog. But the future is uncertain, and none of us know how easy or convenient film will be in 20, 30, 40 or even 50 years...

 

I think leicaphilia is attempting to balance the negativity - which is overstated pretty much everywhere. The supposed difficulty of using film is almost universally exaggerated, and when easy methods are suggested, someone will always pop-up to say 'well just wait xx years - then it'll be impossible to use film'.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[aldash]

Difficulty for us to use film? I used B&W film when I was 12 years old, developed it with D76 in a closet, and made contact prints under a red light. At 14, I had a cheap enlarger. My grandchildren are smarter than I am, so they should be even better at it. Since I couldn't afford a meter, I used a cardboard

"Kodaguide", something like a slide rule, to estimate exposures.

 

About economy, my advice today is: If you want to do Leica film photography, you'll be better off buying a used M4 in very nice condition, then send it to DAG in Wisconsin for an expert CLA, including a fine lens to be adjusted by him. The workmanship of the M4 (or M3 or 3G) is probably better than the M-A. Your used camera may already have some minor surface marks, but who cares? It will probably be smoother than the latest production cameras.