lars_bergquist Posted May 7, 2007 Share #21 Posted May 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, tilt flash does mean a BIG GUN. If you want a flash unit as a 'light backup' you need portability, not a big gun. So, the missing ingredient is not a tilting and swiveling reflector (remember, without swiveling you cannot use the portrait format) but a 'system' shoe-to-flash foot cord. With any kind of cord you can in most cases use bounce with a small hand-held 'rigid' flash unit, even on manual. I have been into this before, and received mostly abuse for my trouble. If you have a full system connection you can use the M-TTL feature, because the flash unit's own sensor is not used, so that it does not matter in what direction it is pointing. The Solms people say that the time lapse between the pre-flash and the full flash is 60 milliseconds with the SF 20, and about 100 milliseconds with a flash with a SC 3002 adaptor foot. This is slightly less than the reaction time of the human nervous-muscular system. So, if people jump or grimace (or stop grimacing ...) then that will happen after the flash exposure. At least if you sync on the first curtain. The old man from the Age of Flashpowder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 7, 2007 Posted May 7, 2007 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here New M8 flash. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2007 Share #22 Posted May 7, 2007 Well, tilt flash does mean a BIG GUN. If you want a flash unit as a 'light backup' you need portability, not a big gun. So, the missing ingredient is not a tilting and swiveling reflector (remember, without swiveling you cannot use the portrait format) but a 'system' shoe-to-flash foot cord. With any kind of cord you can in most cases use bounce with a small hand-held 'rigid' flash unit, even on manual. I have been into this before, and received mostly abuse for my trouble. If you have a full system connection you can use the M-TTL feature, because the flash unit's own sensor is not used, so that it does not matter in what direction it is pointing. The Solms people say that the time lapse between the pre-flash and the full flash is 60 milliseconds with the SF 20, and about 100 milliseconds with a flash with a SC 3002 adaptor foot. This is slightly less than the reaction time of the human nervous-muscular system. So, if people jump or grimace (or stop grimacing ...) then that will happen after the flash exposure. At least if you sync on the first curtain. The old man from the Age of Flashpowder Lars, I am not quite from the age of flashpowder (see attached image of my very first camera in 1952) - so as you can see, flash was an early interest. I have tried using a Contax TLA100 off camera cord with my SF24-D and the M8 but I end up finding that not having three hands is just too much of a handicap (apologies for pun). Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/23349-new-m8-flash/?do=findComment&comment=248016'>More sharing options...
marknorton Posted May 7, 2007 Share #23 Posted May 7, 2007 My experience is that the SF-24D is perfectly timed to catch people blinking. I have far more "eyes-closed" shots than I do with my Nikon D2x. The Leica flash system needs to get its skates on in GNC mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted May 7, 2007 Share #24 Posted May 7, 2007 My experience is that the SF-24D is perfectly timed to catch people blinking. I have far more "eyes-closed" shots than I do with my Nikon D2x. The Leica flash system needs to get its skates on in GNC mode. Yes, the eyelid/brain response time is significantly faster than the extremities. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted May 7, 2007 Share #25 Posted May 7, 2007 I've been thinking about picking up a Sunpak 120J (looks like the Hasselblad D-flash 40) for those occaisions when a powerpack and strobes are not needed but ambient only isn't quite cutting it. Off camera fired by a micro-sync, bare bulb with no reflector, or with the reflector and diffuser. Positioned to provide a little fill or as a key light combined with the ambient light I like it better then the flash heads with fixed rectangular reflectors. Plus the M8 is to small for a tilthead and the on camera flash even with tilt require absurd looking Rube Goldberg attachments (like the Gary Fong diffuser) to get acceptable results. Then you have the problem of shooting in portrait mode. I always carry a tiny Gossen digiflash light meter anyway and it comes in handy for fine tuning your ambient/flash mix for a natural look. You can always find a way to secure the flash off camera if you don't have a volunteer to act as light stand. Plus it all fits in one bag with your camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 7, 2007 Share #26 Posted May 7, 2007 Hank just remember when looking at flashes. need to be able to do certain things adjust ISO, Fstop, A mode are the key factors. Most flashes these days won't let you do any of this and want to set everything automatically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammam Posted May 7, 2007 Share #27 Posted May 7, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yeah, yeah. yeah, Leica M and flash is a heresy. Remember when a meter in the M6 was heresy? And when A mode in the M7 was heresy? And when a digital M was heresy? But you know what? You don't HAVE to use a flash, even if you have one. You don't HAVE to use A mode, even if you have it. Heck, you don't even have to use a meter at all. But it's nice to have, just in case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 7, 2007 Share #28 Posted May 7, 2007 I just love when people think you don't need strobes with M camera's. i guess i will just tell these clients i can't accept there money. :D Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/23349-new-m8-flash/?do=findComment&comment=248333'>More sharing options...
canlogic Posted May 7, 2007 Share #29 Posted May 7, 2007 I shot a wedding this past weekend and used the M8 with a 28 and a 50 extensively at the reception. Also used a 5D. I shot about 13 gig. 95% of images were with a Metz 54 the rest were available light, mostly during the church service where i was not allowed to use flash. The flash was an absolute necessity and worked extremly well in "A" mode. Used it direct, bounced and with a diffuser. Also not one glitch in over 10 hours of shooting and got my final "card full" message in the last 10 seconds of the last dance at the reception. The image quality from both cameras is great but there is a noticable difference from those shot with the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted May 7, 2007 Share #30 Posted May 7, 2007 For on camera flash I'd like to see Leica do something different then the SLR crowd. With bare bulb you don't need tilt, a couple of different shaped plug in compact reflectors and diffusers could give you bare-bulb, combined bounce and diffused or directed diffused light. Bare bulb also looks very retro. Forgive my crude rendering the bulb could actually be smaller or at least more slender I think. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/23349-new-m8-flash/?do=findComment&comment=248358'>More sharing options...
fotografr Posted May 7, 2007 Share #31 Posted May 7, 2007 I can't believe some people are suggesting that others should or should not use flash with their M8. It seems to me this is an entirely personal decision. I'm reminded of the statement regarding abortion rights: "Don't like abortion? Don't have one." Well, don't like flash? Don't use one. Personally, I don't like to use them but sometimes there is simply no alternative. And for those times when one is necessary, I welcome the development of something small enough not to tip the M8 upside down when hanging from a neck strap and with bounce capability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 7, 2007 Share #32 Posted May 7, 2007 Maybe Leica missed the chance to build the best available light digital camera that money can buy, so we need a flash gun? Actually, coupled with a Noctilux, a 28 Cron or CV 1.9, or a 35 1.4, I'd say the M8 is pretty close to the best available light camera out there. Sometimes, though, the best available light is my flash EDIT: Tim--thanks for the 54 Metz report. I find that thing doesn't work except on A mode anyway (with the DMR or my Canon) so it's good to know it was fine on the M8 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted May 7, 2007 Share #33 Posted May 7, 2007 Landscape photographers will wait for a few days at a certain time of year at a certain hour to get the right light. When I have found a location and a shot that has potential I'll revisit it again and again looking for the right light and combination of circumstances. The reason strobes exist is sometimes you don't have the luxury of waiting for mother nature to cooperate or you are in a location where the light sucks and will always suck. Whether it's a family event or a professional assignment, sometimes you can't move the location, your position or wait for better light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hatcher Posted May 7, 2007 Share #34 Posted May 7, 2007 ...So, the missing ingredient is not a tilting and swiveling reflector (remember, without swiveling you cannot use the portrait format) but a 'system' shoe-to-flash foot cord. With any kind of cord you can in most cases use bounce with a small hand-held 'rigid' flash unit, even on manual. I have been into this before, and received mostly abuse for my trouble. If you have a full system connection you can use the M-TTL feature, because the flash unit's own sensor is not used, so that it does not matter in what direction it is pointing... The Nikon off-camera flash cords (SC-17, SC-28) connect all the contacts used on the M8 hot shoe, and so presumably will allow all functions of the SF 24D or any other flash, either hand held, tripod mounted, or on a grip . So that part is not really missing (if you aren't put off by the Nikon logo). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 7, 2007 Share #35 Posted May 7, 2007 Promaster also sells a comparable to the Nikon cord Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted May 7, 2007 Share #36 Posted May 7, 2007 The Nikon off-camera flash cords (SC-17, SC-28) connect all the contacts used on the M8 hot shoe, and so presumably will allow all functions of the SF 24D or any other flash, either hand held, tripod mounted, or on a grip . So that part is not really missing (if you aren't put off by the Nikon logo). If that is the case does anyone know whether Metz 28AF3Nikon would be compatible? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted May 7, 2007 Share #37 Posted May 7, 2007 For on camera flash I'd like to see Leica do something different then the SLR crowd. With bare bulb you don't need tilt, a couple of different shaped plug in compact reflectors and diffusers could give you bare-bulb, combined bounce and diffused or directed diffused light. Bare bulb also looks very retro. Forgive my crude rendering the bulb could actually be smaller or at least more slender I think. Hank, This is what I use quite a lot - not a million miles away. The angle I have taken it at makes it look bigger than it is. Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/23349-new-m8-flash/?do=findComment&comment=248406'>More sharing options...
Chuck Hatcher Posted May 7, 2007 Share #38 Posted May 7, 2007 If that is the case does anyone know whether Metz 28AF3Nikon would be compatible? It might work in manual or auto flash modes, but surely none of the dedicated camera functions would work. Although Leica and Nikon use the same hotshoe contacts, and off-camera cables are compatible, what they use the contacts for is different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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