tookaphotoof Posted August 22, 2014 Share #21 Posted August 22, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wonder if Hasselblad will bring a special edition filmback without an LCD screen to save weight and make the system a bit more compact... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22, 2014 Posted August 22, 2014 Hi tookaphotoof, Take a look here Rumor: Leica to Announce Digital Rangefinder Without an LCD Screen at Photokina. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
colonel Posted August 22, 2014 Share #22 Posted August 22, 2014 Because you want a digital output, not a screen for chimping, right? The whole idea of having a screen is a breakthrough. From changing settings to reviewing photos on the train home. It's like people who don't want the video button. Just don't press it. The M is stripped down enough IMHO If you took away the screen you should finish the job, eg take away the SD card, only have enough memory for 36 shots and take at least 48 hours to prepare them for USB transfer .,,,, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 22, 2014 Share #23 Posted August 22, 2014 The whole idea of having a screen is a breakthrough. I agree, it's a breakthrough and a a wonderful one. The idea of having an instant preview is still amazing to me. The LCD screen is easily one of the best things to come to photography in the past 175 years. The screen is an ultra-useful creative and technical tool. P.S. To everyone who thinks an LCD-less digital camera is a great idea ... I want to see you actually buy it, use it, and then see if you still think it's a great idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Almulla Posted August 22, 2014 Share #24 Posted August 22, 2014 There is a simple hack for the M240 for anyone who isn't interested in the screen and can be done in four easy steps: 1) Set your ISO to whatever film you loved to use the most 2) Drive to the general store / hardware store 3) Buy black duct tape 4) Stick tape on the screen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 22, 2014 Share #25 Posted August 22, 2014 Because a stripped down, 24 MP digital camera, the size of a MP would represent, IMHO, everything that Leica stood for: simplicity, reliability and ease of use. I would absolutely LOVE that, and THIS camera would be a milestone, for me, which would entice me to search my pockets deep But it would be less simple and less easy to use, less utilitarian if you like, and thus in many ways the opposite of what we would like Leica to represent. If you really want simplicity and reliability taken to extremes then a digital camera is almost certainly the wrong instrument at the outset. But if you want the most direct non-gimmicky low-compromise way to take advantage of the conveniences that digital photography can offer combined with many traditional photographic qualities, I think the M has got it pretty close to spot-on except for a few well-documented areas. Reducing its functionality so that it more resembles a film camera without being one will not improve it in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted August 22, 2014 Share #26 Posted August 22, 2014 A digital camera without a screen is like a toilet without a seat. You can use it but why would you want to ... It's worth noting that the GoPro, a very popular digital (video) camera, also doesn't have a screen (in fact it doesn't even have a viewfinder). This hasn't stopped thousands of vacationers from using them as their only holiday camera, and instead of walking around looking at the local views, they have spent the time looking at the app on their iPhones. However, in professional hands the GoPro delivers remarkable results (although I don't expect to see many people strap a Leica M of any kind to a surfboard) I would love an M without an LCD, but I would see this as a 'cheaper' option, and not as a premium priced offering as the article suggests. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 22, 2014 Share #27 Posted August 22, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Because a stripped down, 24 MP digital camera, the size of a MP would represent, IMHO, everything that Leica stood for: simplicity, reliability and ease of use. As for simplicity and ease of use, I suppose if someone is intimidated or even paralyzed to indecision by having options even if they can be set once and forever forgotten, then having everything as immutable defaults except shutter speed and ISO would be a godsend. I use my M240 as if it were a film camera. I have disabled as many functions as I can which do not exist on a film camera, including auto-review. It's the same argument I've heard for years about SLRs. I just don't find them all that difficult to use fully manual. So instead of a numbered dial on top to set the shutter, there's a dial on the back, and the numbers are in the finder so you don't have to take your eye away or count clicks. Bfd. As for reliability, it would still be a digital camera, subject to freeze-ups, shutter faults, card, battery and sensor issues. Without an LCD there would be no simple way to input manual lens selection for those using older uncoded lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
horosu Posted August 22, 2014 Share #28 Posted August 22, 2014 But it would be less simple and less easy to use, less utilitarian if you like, and thus in many ways the opposite of what we would like Leica to represent. I frankly don't see how it would be less simple and less easy to use. For me it would be: 1) set ISO 2) set speed 3) guess aperture and work from there onwards I use my M240 as if it were a film camera. I have disabled as many functions as I can which do not exist on a film camera, including auto-review. It's the same argument I've heard for years about SLRs. I just don't find them all that difficult to use fully manual. ... I agree with you, however a stripped-down version, which would be slimmer would very much appeal to me, in spite of the fact that deep-down it would be another M240. Just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted August 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted August 22, 2014 As for simplicity and ease of use, I suppose if someone is intimidated or even paralyzed to indecision by having options even if they can be set once and forever forgotten, then having everything as immutable defaults except shutter speed and ISO would be a godsend. I use my M240 as if it were a film camera. I have disabled as many functions as I can which do not exist on a film camera, including auto-review. It's the same argument I've heard for years about SLRs. I just don't find them all that difficult to use fully manual. So instead of a numbered dial on top to set the shutter, there's a dial on the back, and the numbers are in the finder so you don't have to take your eye away or count clicks. Bfd. As for reliability, it would still be a digital camera, subject to freeze-ups, shutter faults, card, battery and sensor issues. Without an LCD there would be no simple way to input manual lens selection for those using older uncoded lenses. I too used my DSLRs (before I got rid of them all) in full manual mode most of the time. I always have auto-review turned off. I don't like auto-focus, auto -exposure and auto anything really except in a very few rare circumstances. Nevertheless, I find the screen the immensely useful for taking advantage of the M's ability to use R lenses, to read the histogram when I need to, to change any setting that might not be the most convenient for the type of photography I'm embarking on that day, to enable me to use the same camera for all the different types of photography I do, and yes, it can be very interesting and instructive to see some of the photos that I've taken: it is possible to learn from your own experience as you go along and rather silly, I think, to deny yourself even the occasional opportunity to do so for the sake of 2mm at most. But I do understand that photography is supposed to be fun (when it isn't something else) so fine, I hope you get the camera you'll most enjoy. But it does seem a waste of the most carefully thought-out and intuitive digital camera that I can think of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted August 22, 2014 Share #30 Posted August 22, 2014 I would settle for a pair of LEDs that would light post exposure to say that >1% and >10% of pixels were clipped . Now go make me a Barnack sized digital camera please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeturnum Posted August 22, 2014 Share #31 Posted August 22, 2014 I don't care about the rear screen and am happy to use an app or a usb connection to change the settings on a camera. I would be interested in a Leica without a rear screen if it were cheaper than the current cameras. However, I don't think a camera without a screen is worth more (or even the same) as the current crop of cameras. I wouldn't buy a "special edition" without a screen. Disabling review has worked just fine on every digital camera I own, it'll work fine on Leicas too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted August 22, 2014 Share #32 Posted August 22, 2014 If I had a button or dial for ISO, coded lenses, basic settings adjusted by a link to a PC then I'd only miss the glimpse at the histogram after the shot with the 1s preview. That only stops me getting better at reading the scene and light meter and makes me lazier than I should be. I just don't want to muck around in menu's and I could live happily without the screen, I never change menu settings when I'm out I never take all my lenses with me, to adjust a few settings like lens choice before I go would be no hardship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 22, 2014 Share #33 Posted August 22, 2014 I don't care about the rear screen and am happy to use an app or a usb connection to change the settings on a camera. I would be interested in a Leica without a rear screen if it were cheaper than the current cameras. However, I don't think a camera without a screen is worth more (or even the same) as the current crop of cameras. I wouldn't buy a "special edition" without a screen. Disabling review has worked just fine on every digital camera I own, it'll work fine on Leicas too. Disabling review is the ultra-obvious best solution, one worthy of Captain Obvious. An app to change settings is ... well, not simple at all. Not so reliable either. If a Leica is about simplicity and manual control, giving that up to another device is just totally un-Leica-like. It's worth noting that the GoPro, a very popular digital (video) camera, also doesn't have a screen (in fact it doesn't even have a viewfinder). This hasn't stopped thousands of vacationers from using them as their only holiday camera, and instead of walking around looking at the local views, they have spent the time looking at the app on their iPhones. However, in professional hands the GoPro delivers remarkable results (although I don't expect to see many people strap a Leica M of any kind to a surfboard) I would love an M without an LCD, but I would see this as a 'cheaper' option, and not as a premium priced offering as the article suggests. A GoPro is a poor model for any design cues for a Leica M. It's worth noting how a GoPro is used ... nothing at all like a rangefinder camera. A GoPro is not about manual focus, or careful composition, or even still photography. A lack of precision is part of the essence of GoPro. If one looks to GoPro, then the often disparaged "M" (movie) button would become the main control on the Leica M. But if you want the most direct non-gimmicky low-compromise way to take advantage of the conveniences that digital photography can offer combined with many traditional photographic qualities, I think the M has got it pretty close to spot-on except for a few well-documented areas. Reducing its functionality so that it more resembles a film camera without being one will not improve it in my opinion. I agree. I would add that the LCD fits in perfectly with the photographic tradition. It's what film cameras should have had, but didn't. A histogram and available instant preview are the supreme light meter and compositional device. Because you want a digital output, not a screen for chimping, right? I absolutely want a screen for chimping. A screen for chimping is what I dreamed of as child. I want that screen to be big, crystal clear, instantly responsive and very accurate. I can always turn it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted August 22, 2014 Share #34 Posted August 22, 2014 A GoPro is a poor model for any design cues for a Leica M. It's worth noting how a GoPro is used ... nothing at all like a rangefinder camera. A GoPro is not about manual focus, or careful composition, or even still photography. A lack of precision is part of the essence of GoPro. If one looks to GoPro, then the often disparaged "M" (movie) button would become the main control on the Leica M. Yes I'm quite aware of that, and wasn't suggesting that Leica should follow any of the design traits or ambitions of the GoPro. Just that it is an example of a successful camera without a screen.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted August 22, 2014 Share #35 Posted August 22, 2014 I don't care about the rear screen and am happy to use an app or a usb connection to change the settings on a camera. I would be interested in a Leica without a rear screen if it were cheaper than the current cameras. Imagine you needed to buy another smartphone because Leica didn't have an app made for it. Imagine you needed to take your laptop with you to change the iso on the camera... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard.no Posted August 22, 2014 Share #36 Posted August 22, 2014 I was told something similar by a Leica employee a month or so ago – not necessarily without an LCD but a more stripped down ("thinner" was one of the the specific words used) M that is more in tune with the traditional M gestalt. My guess is that the reason for a price hike on the existing cameras is that a cheaper (and simpler) M is on the way. They want to maintain the exclusivity of the cameras, while creating a big enough price gap to entice more people to buy the "entry model". Those that regularly buy or upgrade current M models are likely going to buy the flagship M, regardless of price. This would also be in line with the earlier Leica statements that they want to bring the M to the "masses". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted August 22, 2014 Share #37 Posted August 22, 2014 I thought the ME was their 'less expensive' model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted August 22, 2014 Share #38 Posted August 22, 2014 If all or most of the people who say they like the idea of a digital M without an LCD also think that such a camera should be cheaper or at least not more expensive than a regular M, then this rumored LCD-less M may become one of the worst-selling M cameras ever. On the positive side, that could make it very valuable as a collector's item! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_parker Posted August 22, 2014 Share #39 Posted August 22, 2014 The fact that they've announced the Typ 240 M-P early makes me think that they have something up their sleeve for Photokina..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 23, 2014 Share #40 Posted August 23, 2014 They nearly always have -and it is usually something completely unexpected, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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