X Vario AF Unreliability

[symmetron]

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So yesterday, I used my XV for photos of my son's high school graduation. Setup was inside , on a tripod, ISO 400 & 800, shutter speed 1/30 and 1/60, flash at -2 (flash fill for eye shadows), focal length varied across entire lens range. For those results that were in focus, very pleased, but there was a VERY significant number (50%>) where the green rectangle indicated focus, the results were out of focus. Unfortunately using either the EVF or LCD simply don't have the resolution or magnification to verify sharp focus. I know I could have used manual focus, but I didn't, and don't expect to have to, to get a sharp image. I'm disgusted at this point. Obviously a graduation is a "must work" event for a camera.

 

Ironically, earlier in the day I sent the following email (see below) to Leica Germany and Roger Horn (Leica USA) expressing my frustration with lack of support and firmware upgrades for the XV. The clamor for a firmware update for the XV on the Internet has died down and Leica has shifted its attention to the T, apparently.

 

At this point, I may just have to dump my Leica gear after many, many years of using these fine machines and go with something more reliable in spite of Leica's stellar IQ. There's just no reason owning any machine that you cannot depend upon when you need it. Something has changed with Leica. Not sure what, but it's not the responsive and responsible company it once was.

 

Email to Leica:

 

Dear Leica,

 

I have been a loyal Leica owner since 1985 when I purchased my first Leica R4s. Since then I have purchased Leica cameras (2) R4s, R7, (2) M6, (2) MP, (2) R8, Minilux, Digilux 2, DLux 4, and recently Leica X1 and the X Vario, as well as multiple lenses and accessories. Virtually all of the equipment was purchased new from authorized Leica dealers.

 

Today I am contacting you because of my disappointment with the lack of firmware upgrades and support for the Leica X Vario, which has a known focusing issue as mine does as well. Besides the fact that I purchased the X Vario when it first was available in the U.S. for $2850, the price has dropped by about one-third since then, and my X Vario continues to have substantial focusing issues as do all X Varios and the system requires a firmware upgrade. However, Leica has moved on from the X Vario essentially stranding its owners with an expensive camera that is unable to function consistently and reliably. This is not right! I also contacted Leica USA regarding if and when the X Vario firmware upgrade might occur and apparently there is no news from Leica Germany.

 

Myself and other Leica owners feel abandoned by Leica regarding the X Vario lack of support. We Leica users stood by Leica during its darkest days over the last ten years and feel that now Leica may not value its loyal customer base any longer as it is financially more stable and more forward looking. Unfortunately, owners such as me feel that after all of the years of owning and supporting Leica, that relationship no longer makes sense.

 

Leica needs to devote some energy and resources to support and engage its loyal customer base and devote a little less to promoting Leica brand loyalty, i.e. Leica for its own sake. I really don't want to walk away from Leica like many other users are contemplating, but Leica just has not and is not responding to its users and equipment support after sales.

[thighslapper]

Sorry to hear about your problems......

 

There was along and at times acrimonious thread about this that ran for months ........

 

Some folk seem to have had persistent AF issues ...... but most have found no real difference between the XV and similar AF cameras .... with some problems in low light at high ISO's which can be avoided by careful focus point choice ......

 

I note that with a tripod you are stuck entirely with what the camera is pointing at ...... and if that has low vertical contrast the camera will have problems .....

 

The main Leica specific 'bug' appears to be the camera thinking and indicating it has focus .... when it hasn't ....... and most users have never had this happen which does make you wonder if it is camera specific .......

 

I've taken many hundreds if indoor shots .... often in very dim churches and almost all the shots are spot on ....... and when it was almost completely dark I just set the distance manually on the lens ...... with the modest maximum apertures and smaller sensor on the XV you have plenty of DOF .....

[Gobdulm]

The camera takes blurry pictures in any lighting situation, not only in low light. And not to mention in quick pictures ... the possibilities do not leave things well are extremely high, zero reliability. The machine has gone wrong focus and apart from giving bad ok when not focused. It is slower than the wrong horse. This is reality. And we'll see if this can be fixed with the new firmware. Are you so sure?

[mrware]

It does seem at least some number of x-varios have shipped with AF issues. Has anyone had any success with sending them into Leica? The firmware upgrade for the T came on the heels of the launch and was probably deemed critical, but it does show that Leica can ship and update when they want to. This AF issue is not doing the X series reputation any favors.

[Gobdulm]

I have written to Leica and they answered me that they are working on a new firmware.

[symmetron]

Same here, but it's been a while and I don't perceive it's a priority.

[dkCambridgeshire]

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The OP makes a sweeping generalisation by suggesting that all X Vario cameras have substantial focusing issues. Such exaggerated dogmatic statements are liable to be read with a pinch of salt by Leica Camera AG and by many Leica XV owners/users - because the claim, judging by other users' experiences, is not justified.

 

The alleged issue/claim, when only experienced by a minority of users, and without carefully designed/documented scientific testing/sampling, and without making any allowance for possible user error, should not be assumed to affect all XV cameras.

 

My XV focuses fine in pitch black night-time conditions … http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/technology-industry/334950-leica-xv-tool-camera.html … and I have never experienced focus problems in daylight ... and it continues to function reliably and consistently.

 

I imagine that Leica Camera AG has to endure rather too many exaggerated complaints and probably has to 'bite its lip' to avoid upsetting complainants.

 

Furthermore, who are and where are the 'many other' Leica users who are contemplating walking away from the brand?

 

If people wish their complaints to be considered credible and sensible then perhaps they should imagine themselves as a customer service manager reading such exaggerations and threats of abandonment … and thus tone down complaints to avoid them being ignored.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

[jaapv]

Or, alternately, send the defective camera in to be sorted. Slightly more effective than complaining....

[Gobdulm]

Amén.

[thighslapper]

The OP makes a sweeping generalisation by suggesting that all X Vario cameras have substantial focusing issues. Such exaggerated dogmatic statements are liable to be read with a pinch of salt by Leica Camera AG and by many Leica XV owners/users - because the claim, judging by other users' experiences, is not justified.

 

dunk

 

..... yes ... I have to say that the "I took a load of pictures and a lot of them were crap so the camera must be rubbish' is hardly a rational analysis of the problem

[symmetron]

Well, I sent an email to Dr. Alfred Schopf and he passed it on to his Product Management staff. I was then contacted via email by a representative of his Product Management staff, a Mr. Luehring, who emailed me and advised me that a firmware update is forthcoming for this issue, but without a date identified for the update.

 

After that, I was contacted by Mr. Roger Horn and his Customer Service representative who also indicated that they do receive some XV's on a monthly basis that have significant focusing issues. However, it is not enough to be statistically significant by Leica standards. I presume Leica does not adhere to the 6 sigma strategy as far as quality control is concerned.

 

In any event, Leica offered to replace the camera because they are a very considerate and are aware of these issues as I stated even though they are not significant, unless of course it affects the camera that you own.

 

So for those who haven't experienced these issues, I'm happy for you. Enjoy your camera. I hope to have an XV that is as reliable as yours.

 

Q.E.D.

[jaapv]

Which is a roundabout way of saying that some cameras are defective and will be replaced.

[stuny]

Vettran -

 

Have you taken them up on their offer to replace your camera? That strikes me as the quickest and best solution for you personally.

[tom0511]

My X-Vario focuses ok in most cases but sometimes it focuses on the background. I believe it could have to do with the size of real AF-point eventually being bigger? than the indicated area?

Of course the AF is pretty slow. For example the EM1 is night and days better.

If I hear abot your percentage of misfocused images I would say that there must be something wrong with your camera.

Which AF-setting do you use? auto or single or spot?

[Gobdulm]

Today.

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[wda]

Time has elapsed since the start of this thread. Has there been any update from Leica Germany?

 

I have suffered similar random erroneous auto-focusing. Initially I assumed it was operator error. But having reviewed my methods and tightened procedures, I still get inexplicable very wrong focus. It has no clear point of focus anywhere despite postive focus confirmation.

 

Leica UK claims it has received very few complaints about unreliable AF on the X Vario but admitted my sample file was evidence of failed AF. Before going further, has any member received feedback from Leica Germany or camera replacement or more positive information of a related firmware update?

[Manoleica]

Never had a problem with mine (2yrs old)

[waloszek]

Today, I sent my X Vario to Leica because of a dust issue (lens or sensor). In an accompanying letter, I also addressed the AF issue and dull AWB (with lots of sample images).

I still get incorrectly focused photos within series of correctly focused photos, albeit less often now, since I use 1-point AF (and take other measures).

 

I do not know, whether Leica will reply to my writing - but if they do so, I will let you know in this forum (and thread).

 

Best regards, Gerd

[wda]

Gerd, my hunch is that only a small batch of cameras suffers from inconsistent AF; and of those who do, only a few have commented on the forum about it. So I welcome your feedback. I am preparing to send mine for examination/exchange because I can no longer rely on it for serious photography. Some members who reported last year might have received information and not reported it here.

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[asiafish]

I used to own a Sony NEX7, which is also contrast-detect AF. Before that a Sony NEX5n and my daughter has a Sony RX100, both of which are also contrast detect.

 

My X Vario is about the same as the rest. Contrast-detect AF is by nature quite slow in poor light or low contrast situations, and only adequate for speed in bright light. Phase-detect systems such as in DSLRs and the newer generation of mirrorless will be faster, but have accuracy issues of their own.

 

Overall I have been and remain quite pleased with the X Vario's autofocus. It isn't fast enough for sports, but manual pre-focus is exceptionally good. Where the system excels is in accuracy, even at the more challenging close-up and infinity ranges where many AF systems fail.

 

After just over a year with the X Vario, I remain pleased enough that I bought the X (type 113) as a low-light companion, and am equally pleased with the AF on that camera.