Search for the perfect 90mm....

[DigitalHeMan]

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Those of you who have read some of my earlier posts on 90mm lenses may remember that I have had front focus issues with my first two lenses - the 90mm Summicron Type II, and the Elmarit-M.

 

The good news is that I have sold the Elmarit-M on eBay, fully disclosing the problems I have had, and got a good price for it, and the Summicron has had a CLA and is sharp, but a very heavy lens to travel with.

 

I would now like to make a final decision for a 90mm, and see the following options:

 

- Summicron 90mm f/2 APO - Creme de la creme, but the heaviest (and most expensive!) of the bunch

 

- Summarit 90mm f/2.5 - The only lens that I could buy new within my budget. General online opinion, and from the few test shots I have made, is very positive. Light lens.

 

- Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8 - Good reputation when it works, but based upon my first experience with this lens, and the fact that previous threads on LUF have suggested it is hard to find a good copy, make me steer clear, especially as I would be buying unseen

 

- Macro-Elmar 90mm f/4 - Have found a well priced example locally without the adapter. Gets good reviews on line, but I haven't been able to find any example (portrait) shots that have impressed me. Main advantages are the lightweight, and the closer focusing (0.76m) capabilities, but it's 'only' f/4

 

So given that each of these lenses are available for between 1700 and 2000 Euros (with the exception of the Elmarit which is a bit cheaper), which one is the best option in the forum's opinion? I'm quite tempted by the concept of the Macro-Elmar, especially as if I decide to update to an M240 or similar later I could buy the M Macro adapter and take advantage of the close focus capabilities. On the other hand the Summicron and Summarit are both excellent, one being lightweight, the other offering f/2.....

 

I would be using it for travel photography, and portrait. If anyone can support their opinion with some images, especially from the Macro-Elmar as a portrait lens, I would appreciate it greatly!

 

Thank you.

[pop]

I used to use the Elmarit-M until I had it coded. They claimed that it was not possible to adjust it such that it was accurate both at infinity and at the closest range because some parts were not available any more. This destroyed more my faith in this beautiful little lens than its quality, I suppose.

 

I have now a nearly new Summarit-M and am perfectly happy with it. I could have bought faster 90mm lens for less money but decided for the Summarit for three reasons:

1. 90mm is a focal length which I find quite difficult to focus in many situations so that the wider aperture are not that useful to me.
   
2. Those with a wider aperture are heavier.
   
3. Most of my other lenses are Summarits as well.
   

[TomB_tx]

Last year I picked up a 90 Elmar-C that was made for the CL. It has become my favorite "carry" 90 for my M9. Much sharper than I expected, and perfect focus on my M9. Puts noted that the optical layout resembles the new 90 macro and that it seems designed for closer range subjects.

[DigitalHeMan]

I used to use the Elmarit-M until I had it coded. They claimed that it was not possible to adjust it such that it was accurate both at infinity and at the closest range because some parts were not available any more. This destroyed more my faith in this beautiful little lens than its quality, I suppose.

 

I have now a nearly new Summarit-M and am perfectly happy with it. I could have bought faster 90mm lens for less money but decided for the Summarit for three reasons:

1. 90mm is a focal length which I find quite difficult to focus in many situations so that the wider aperture are not that useful to me.
   
2. Those with a wider aperture are heavier.
   
3. Most of my other lenses are Summarits as well.
   

 

Thanks Phillip, that makes sense. Light is always good, and focusing at f/2 is hard for me as well I'm still very interested in the Macro-Elmar for a very lightweight lens though. It intrigues me.....

[Grskovic]

You might check here...

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/335822-new-leica-90mm-lenses-article-overgaard.html

[menos I M6]

…I would now like to make a final decision for a 90mm, and see the following options:

 

- Summicron 90mm f/2 APO - Creme de la creme, but the heaviest (and most expensive!) of the bunch

 

It is stellar as it's reputation but it gets very heavy if carried as an "also in the bag lens" as any really fast ~90 mm lenses.

I think this is a lens for people who demand the absolute best performance possible @ 90/2 and make this one of their mainly used lenses. The price suggests this as well.

 

- Summarit 90mm f/2.5 - The only lens that I could buy new within my budget. General online opinion, and from the few test shots I have made, is very positive. Light lens.

As nice as it performs and as good as actual users find theirs, I would not spend the asking price for this lens.

It is great for the person who needs to buy a warrantied lens with peace of mind within a budget.

I would rather take this money towards a downpayment of a 90/2 APO or pay a similarly great second hand lens entirely.

 

- Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8 - Good reputation when it works, but based upon my first experience with this lens, and the fact that previous threads on LUF have suggested it is hard to find a good copy, make me steer clear, especially as I would be buying unseen

In my opinion still the golden middle approach in 2014.

If the wonderful 90/4 Macro is too slow for you, the big, heavy and expensive 90/2 APO to big, heavy and expensive and older 90/2 to big, heavy and soft, the 90 Elmarit-M (latest version) is by all means the best choice.

It is sharp, contrasty, has beautiful background rendering and is a top reliable fully featured lens (integrated lens hood, focussing down just slightly under 1m, sharing Leica's modern standard E46mm filters).

The Elmarit-M has in my opinion the perfect focus travel for such a lens - not too short, not too long (only it's distance control ring could be a little bit wider for my taste).

 

In terms of sample variation in regards of focus - be aware that most of these lenses were build when there was NO digital RF camera available on the market, hence these lenses suffer from "variation" to the exact same extend like any other critical lenses of their time.

The 90/2.8 Elmarit-M is not worse or better in this regard.

 

I have had over the course of time 4 samples, all late production, two of them factory coded.

All but one of these have been dead on focussing on several Leica M bodies.

From these lenses I still have two (silver/black), both are still dead on from close focus to infinity on my digital bodies.

 

I suggest to find either an already factory coded sample (more pricey but chances are it is already perfect) or steer a bit of budget to a cosmetically nice sample and have it adjusted (you pay more for this at Leica, but you can enjoy also 6-bit coding and a great warranty).

 

The only weak point I find with 90/2.8 samples is the construction of the aperture control ring, which tends like many of Leica's contemporary lenses to feel strange (double click wide open, different lenses feel different, …). Functionally this is not an issue though.

 

- Macro-Elmar 90mm f/4 - Have found a well priced example locally without the adapter. Gets good reviews on line, but I haven't been able to find any example (portrait) shots that have impressed me. Main advantages are the lightweight, and the closer focusing (0.76m) capabilities, but it's 'only' f/4

This would be my first choice (coupling it with a faster portrait lens for when thin DOF is wanted, which can even be a lens as inexpensive as a well calibrated Jupiter 80/2).

I am still hunting for a nice black sample myself, as it is in my opinion the espresso of 90mm lenses - of course you don't get a mug full of latte but it is the perfect essence of what it is meant to be ;-)

[wda]

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I would definitely go for the Summarit lens. It belongs to an underrated and superb range. Furthermore, in your terms, it is affordable. It combines excellent performance with a relatively light package. Do get the hood and consider the 1.4x magnifier to nail focusing regularly.

[Jennifer]

I bought an APO 90 at the same time as I bought my M, as experience from years ago with my very late M6 suggested that 90 was my portrait lens of choice. Now, however, I'm far from sure I'll use it as much as I thought I would. It's big and heavy (in Leica terms) and advancing years have made me far less tolerant of humping heavy kit around. That being said, no doubt, it's a very fine lens capable of producing, subject only to the photographer, some truly outstanding images.

[Peter H]

My vote goes to the latest version of the Elamarit-M.

 

Just the right balance of the the qualities I could ever want in a 90mm lens; fast enough, small enough, and stunning, exquisite quality.

 

So whilst there's no such thing as "perfect", this comes as close as I could hope for.

[pgk]

I'll second this. I owned one and stupidly sold one in a moment of daftness (it had no issues). Then I bought another (no issues either) which I have and use (as in yesterday) and to me it represents by far the best compromise of all Leica's 90mm lenses. Image 'quality' is superb with just marginal chroma which can be dealt with in post, its an E46 filtered lens, ergonomics are excellent, build quality is high (it doesn't have rubber grips - a personal thing but I much prefer the metal lenses myself) and its size is neither small nor huge - quite acceptable. I do not understand the 'parts unavailable, cannot adjust' statement and would suggest than a competent technician should certainly be able to sort out focus issues on this lens.

 

If you want a more modern lens and can live with 15mm less focal length the the 75mm Summicron is perhaps of similar feel but a little shorter (and takes E49 of course) .....

[tom0511]

I do like the 90/2.8.

Having said this I just bought a 90/2.0 pre-asph. I don't find it that much bigger and I have to say it seems to be optically a very fine lens + you get f2.0 when you need it. It is not that big/heavy IMO.

I also have the 90 Macro which is nice and small but does sometimes show a slightly harsher bokeh IMO, so I think Elmarit, Summicron or Summarit might be better choice for portrait and bokeh-fans.

 

Having said all this 75mm is more flexible focal length IMO.

[DigitalHeMan]

Thank you all for the feedback. Some good points have been made and I am working them around in my head...... I will try and find a dealer who has got both the Elmarit and the Macro-Elmar in stock to try and do a bit of a comparison, as these two are at the top of the list right now.....

 

Menos/Dirk, special thanks to you for the detailed opinion on each lens

[Jeff S]

If anyone can support their opinion with some images, especially from the Macro-Elmar as a portrait lens, I would appreciate it greatly!

 

The search box will provide some discussion and pics, such as this.

 

Jeff

[DigitalHeMan]

The search box will provide some discussion and pics, such as this.

 

Jeff

 

Thanks Jeff, I am aware of how the search function works and have used it extensively.

[Jeff S]

Thanks Jeff, I am aware of how the search function works and have used it extensively.

 

I provided a specific link with a pic to address your request. Won't bother again.

 

Jeff

[DigitalHeMan]

I provided a specific link with a pic to address your request. Won't bother again.

 

Jeff

 

Sorry, didn't mean to come across harshly, but I have searched endlessly for images, both on this forum and google, and, with the exception of one or two images such as the one you posted, have not managed to find much. Hence my request for additional new samples here.

[menos I M6]

…

 

If you want a more modern lens and can live with 15mm less focal length the the 75mm Summicron is perhaps of similar feel but a little shorter (and takes E49 of course) .....

 

This is a very interesting mention.

The 75/2 is another beautiful choice if you want a short telephoto with modern character, as good as it's gets.

 

This brings me to another interesting lens (I cannot believe how little this is mentioned):

Voigtlander 75/2.5 LTM

 

This is one of the lenses which REALLY surprised me.

It is very affordable.

It is extremely lightweight and compact, yet it has a very, very high build quality, fit, finish and feel which I would indeed put in the same class as comparable Leica lenses (only exception the typical "metallic click of the aperture dial, but that is a thing of personal preference).

The lens is mainly solid brass with black enamel paint, really solid.

The rendering is by far not as sharp and crisp like a stopped down 75 Summilux or even the 75/2 APO but it has a lovely character with just enough detail but beautiful, natural rendering, ideal for portraits (if it is not the crisp, high impact look you are after).

 

I understand 75mm lenses are not for everybody (myself included), hence the little use of this lens but when I have brought it, it always surprised me how good a lens it is for this little money it costs. It is among the few Voigtlander lenses that have real favourite potential.

 

Voigtlander also made a 90mm APO Lanthar, I always wondered how this lens is and am still looking for a nice sample. It might very well be among the contenders.

[NJH]

It is, I have one on a CV LTM to M adaptor. Its as sharp as any other lens I have used once stopped down a bit but has to my mind slightly lower contrast and smoother rendition wide open which is something I really like (smooth bokeh). I guess sample variation may be an issue but I bought mine secondhand on the strength of some very sharp images taken with it by the vendor.

 

The legendary mr Puts tested it and it appears in his guide, ISTR he measured 75 lp/pm on the sides which is more than sufficient really.

[efreed2754]

Have used 90 Elmarit with great satisfaction these past 15 years. Had it coded when got M9 years ago and still great results.

 

That said also use 75 Summicron and probably go to it more often as wider.

 

And last week used both and had wonderful results with 90 again...very sharp!

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Hallo,

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[DigitalHeMan]

So I have found a local-ish dealer who has an example of the Macro-Elmar, two APOs, and two pre-ASPHs in stock. Unfortunately he doesn't have the latest Elmarit (although he does have some earlier models) so I will go along tomorrow and try them all out.

 

Thanks for all the feedback so far.