ayewing Posted June 29, 2014 Share #41 Posted June 29, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) In the UK Yellow Pages is a commercial directory of suppliers of goods and services in your local area. It is supplied free to telephone subscribers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 Hi ayewing, Take a look here sensor spots. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
viramati Posted June 29, 2014 Share #42 Posted June 29, 2014 Leica Mayfair in London will do a free sensor clean- just about any time you like? That would be great- I really wish I could get that here... is that just a Mayfair thing or do all Leica boutiques offer such a wonderful service? Only whilst under warranty? I hardly ever clean my sensor- other than using a blower. Every so often I ask my camera tech to wet clean under his stereo microscope. Even after such cleans I see spots reappearing pretty quickly ( I change lenses frequently) ... - so I just end up doing a lot of spot removal in LR - mostly from skies. Unfortunately I did find making large prints- that spots show up even on very busy dark backgrounds where you could never find them on a computer monitor. Most viewers would never notice them but I do and it annoys me... - O well- there used to be dust on negatives and slides... and no easy clone tools. But it would be nice if Leica implemented a self cleaning sensor in their next iteration. don't know about other leica stores but Leica Mayfair will do a sensor clean for free on the M9, M and probably M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick932 Posted June 29, 2014 Share #43 Posted June 29, 2014 they have a very good coffee machine too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 29, 2014 Share #44 Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks all for your advices. My initial camera was replaced three times. Two of them because of spots. However, Leica offers free cleaning; which I received. I am not the type of person that could do the cleaning very well; in any case I should not be doing such a task. It is just hard to get rid off the M. Is a very friendly, extremely easy to use, fairly consistent, I rarely waste a shot - you can be really productive, no other camera I have experienced gave me the results that I get with this M. Based on these facts it is not an expensive camera. Overall, I am very happy with it. I wish Leica would have done better job on delivering a spotless camera. But they address the issue for free. Spots could be an Achilles heel. Finally, I think that I will keep the camera and I will not return it. The M 240 has a dual type shutter with more moving parts than the M9 shutter; the M 240 shutter has the additional 'open-close-open-close' action when the camera is in live view and spot metering modes. The M 240's additional shutter movements may have greater potential for generating friction dust and/or displacing lubricant which can cause sensor glass 'spots'. Other camera manufacturers use the 'sensor vibrate/shake it off' method to minimise dust building up on sensor glass. Leica does not use vibrating sensors. Digital 'M' users should be aware that their sensors will inevitably require cleaning and thus be prepared to clean the sensors themselves. Bear in mind that when Leica Mayfair technicians clean any M camera sensor, they also thoroughly clean all around the shutter - thus removing any dust which might otherwise migrate onto the sensor filter. Sensor glass cleaning is not rocket science - it's routine DIY camera maintenance which can be learnt by any Tom, Dick or Harriet. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick932 Posted June 29, 2014 Share #45 Posted June 29, 2014 The M 240 has a dual type shutter with more moving parts than the M9 shutter; the M 240 shutter has the additional 'open-close-open-close' action when the camera is in live view and spot metering modes. The M 240's additional shutter movements may have greater potential for generating friction dust and/or displacing lubricant which can cause sensor glass 'spots'. Other camera manufacturers use the 'sensor vibrate/shake it off' method to minimise dust building up on sensor glass. Leica does not use vibrating sensors. Digital 'M' users should be aware that their sensors will inevitably require cleaning and thus be prepared to clean the sensors themselves. Bear in mind that when Leica Mayfair technicians clean any M camera sensor, they also thoroughly clean all around the shutter - thus removing any dust which might otherwise migrate onto the sensor filter. Sensor glass cleaning is not rocket science - it's routine DIY camera maintenance which can be learnt by any Tom, Dick or Harriet. dunk Well I am not sure who you are and if you speak on behalf of Leica, but as a consumer I found out about the cleaning after my purchase of £5100. Now, that I have lost my valuable time, I know that Leica cameras have attraction to dust particles, I can decide if this it is acceptable or not to buy such a camera. You are quiet wrong telling me what I need to do and what I should not. This is my choice and not yours. In addition I could be a person that I cannot do this [...........] At least Leica offers this service for free and they offer coffee and a three hour orientation of the camera usage. In EU they should offer this within a week so at least if you are not happy with the purchase you might have enough time to investigate the product and return it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2014 Share #46 Posted June 29, 2014 I'm afraid Dunk is right. Sensor cleaning is a fact of life for all interchangeable lens digital cameras, witnessed by the fact that all camera stores sell a large array of cleaning materials, that there are independent sensor cleaning services dotted all over the country, that virtually every self-respecting camera shop offers sensor cleaning services, and so do camera makers. If you get sticky dust on a "self cleaning" sensor, like for instance Pollen, even those will need to be cleaned. The only way to avoid this is either use film or a fixed- lens camera. Your diatribe singling out Leica is quite misplaced. Have a look here for instance: Nikon D800 dust on sensor: Nikon FX SLR (DF, D1-D4, D600-D800) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Or, more extensive, post #19 of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick932 Posted June 30, 2014 Share #47 Posted June 30, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Horses for courses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 30, 2014 Share #48 Posted June 30, 2014 Sensor cleaning is a fact of life . We have to remember there is a an increasing number of people, probably a generation now, who are unable to do things. As kids they have never fixed a puncture on their bicycle, they have never gone fishing, they have never made their own toys to play with. So they grow up incapable of the simplest coordinated tasks. Leica are going to have to do something about it if for no other reason than they can't have expected the 'free sensor cleaning' to be continually used time and time again in all their world stores, I'm sure they anticipated owners getting down to it themselves at some point (hence the menu command). And 'free' is a warped way to look at the service, firstly spending time going to and fro to the shop, but it also doesn't allow freedom to have the sensor cleaned at the critical time of when dust is first noticed, be it on holiday or on assignment. Managing expectations is a tricky area, at the moment there are a majority of owners who accept dust is a way of life and deal with it as they have with other camera's in the past, but some owners are new to digital, new to photography in some cases, and it is a shock to them. And it won't get better as owners migrate from smaller P&S cameras that already have self cleaning sensors. So roll on Leica's first self cleaning sensor, it will probably make the camera even bigger, but that is the price to pay for the sake of five minutes use of the appropriate tools in the comfort of the owners own home. But in the longer term it has to happen. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2014 Share #49 Posted June 30, 2014 I suspect there there is a problem here as cameras like the D800e do not offer sensor cleaning either. It is is course not the sensor itself that vibrates but the filter glass in front of it. As the filter array must be as thin as possible to get optimum image quality, especially on short-register full frame cameras like the M series I can imagine that it is constructed as close to the mechanical limit as possible which will not allow the extra mechanical impact of ultrasonic vibration. The cracked IR filters on the M9 have taught as how close to the limit the design is in the interest of image quality. So should the quality of a tool be limited to accommodate a few or even a group of potential users that refuse to learn how to maintain the tool? Somehow I do not see Leica going that route, at least not on their M series, which is not intended for the user who is unwilling to learn its operation anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 30, 2014 Share #50 Posted June 30, 2014 Sensor glass cleaning for the uninitiated can be a fearsome prospect but there is a first time for everything; it's a learning process and there is plenty of help available via online demonstrations. I learnt by watching online videos and also attended a Leica Mayfair demo day where a Leica technician answered all my questions regarding how they approach sensor cleaning - and that is how I learnt that those technicians pay particular attention to cleaning all around the shutter area and sensor as well as cleaning the actual sensor glass. Grasp the nettle properly and there will be no sting. Furthermore, I learnt about the M 240 shutter's 'open close open close' action in live view mode by watching the well known Photokina 2012 Stefan Daniel / Thorsten Overgaard M 240 video discussion … scroll to 11mins 14 secs to hear how the M 240 shutter action differs from that of the M9 … and then consider why the M 240's shutter might have a greater propensity for generating shutter friction debris onto the sensor glass than the M9. The Leica Forum forum enables communications and advice to help members deal with problems such as sensor cleaning. Taking up that advice is not obligatory but considering same and using it can enable easier camera operation with fewer problems. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2014 Share #51 Posted June 30, 2014 We have to remember there is a an increasing number of people, probably a generation now, who are unable to do things. As kids they have never fixed a puncture on their bicycle, they have never gone fishing, they have never made their own toys to play with. So they grow up incapable of the simplest coordinated tasks. Steve Paints a pretty bleak future filled with incompetents. However I am optimistic enough to believe the group you describe is not so big -and intelligent- as to be able to shape the future. Darwin does not favour couch potatoes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 30, 2014 Share #52 Posted June 30, 2014 Somehow I do not see Leica going that route, at least not on their M series, which is not intended for the user who is unwilling to learn its operation anyway. I equally hope not, as you realise there was an element of rhetoric in my comment. But lets look at it another way, where do I sign up for the benefits of free sensor cleaning? As it stands I have to buy my own cleaning materials, as do the majority of users, whom let's not forget find sensor cleaning an easy task. So the more 'unwilling' you are the more benefit you get from the Leica system. Now some people are genuinely challenged , and its not fair to make things hard for those, but this is a significant free benefit only open to people living close to a main store, notwithstanding free coffee. So it's about time Leica sent me some free swabs..... and a Cona to make the coffee. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 30, 2014 Share #53 Posted June 30, 2014 … We have to remember there is a an increasing number of people, probably a generation now, who are unable to do things. As kids they have never fixed a puncture on their bicycle, they have never gone fishing, they have never made their own toys to play with. So they grow up incapable of the simplest coordinated tasks. … Steve When I give practical photography demonstrations to clubs and societies I'm always amazed by the fact that half the participants have never read their camera instruction manuals and are unaware of camera modes other than full auto. Half of my demo time is usually taken up showing participants how to use their cameras properly before we can start on image composition in the viewfinder or on the monitor. Some are unaware their camera has a live view mode - and regarding sensors, their sensor awareness is only concerned with the number of megapixels rather than the necessity for keeping it clean. Basic DIY sensor cleaning and need for same is covered in Leica M instruction manuals. Taking sensor cleaning a stage further than merely blowing away dust should be within most people's capabilities if they really want to have full control of their photography. The methodology and tools are available to anyone who has the common sense to find them, and use them properly and confidently. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2014 Share #54 Posted June 30, 2014 Maybe Leica should include a free tutorial with each camera sold. It might not be too cost--intensive if they organise groups at boutiques and premier dealers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 30, 2014 Share #55 Posted June 30, 2014 Maybe Leica should include a free tutorial with each camera sold. It might not be too cost--intensive if they organise groups at boutiques and premier dealers. An official Leica online video would also be useful ... which could also result in a whole new line of Leica badge engineered sensor cleaning kits dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick932 Posted July 14, 2014 Share #56 Posted July 14, 2014 very interesting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nick932 Posted July 15, 2014 Share #57 Posted July 15, 2014 What a pity!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 15, 2014 Share #58 Posted July 15, 2014 Maybe Leica should include a free tutorial with each camera sold. It might not be too cost--intensive if they organise groups at boutiques and premier dealers. I am not sure that Leica would do that- following on from the email I got from them a few weeks ago. I am surprised no one has mentioned this new email here already? It stated that users should only use a blower to remove dust: but seek professional service for any cleaning that touches the actual sensor cover. If they were to reccomend any product or method- they may see themselves as partially liable for any issues that may arise... Last week I took my camera into my local Leica dealer and asked if they clean digital sensors, they said 'Yes, of course', but when I pulled out my M they said... 'ah, no- Not for that one'... seems they didn't want to risk working on such a valuable camera? They did confirm that Leica boutiques do offer free cleaning for the M, unfortunately for me the nearest such store is over 1800 kilometers away... Perhaps the best solution would be if Leica were to extend this cleaning service offer to all Leica dealers, train and supply them for the job? I would also appreciate it if Leica gave an official recommendation of which product they approve for use with their camera... My Hasselblad CWD digital back came with sensor cleaning materials and instructions. In the meantime I am going to accept that I will have to do it myself though I would rather it be done by a professional in a clean environment. However I am now concerned Leica's email suggests a policy where they make a point of recommending that you not wet clean the sensor yourself. here is a copy of the relevant part of the email from Leica: CORRECT CLEANINGThe dos and don'ts of sensor cleaning Never try to remove particles from sensors without appropriate aids, for instance by blowing into the camera. All good camera dealers stock a range of different products for sensor cleaning. Please remember that camera sensors are extremely sensitive and very easy to damage. Damage caused by incorrect manual sensor cleaning may well lead to elaborate and very expense repairs. For this reason in particular, we recommend cleaning methods without brushes and without touching the sensor. For example, loose particles of dust or dirt can be easily removed from the glass cover of the sensor with a (rubber) blower or with clean, or even ionised, pressurised inert gases like nitrogen. If the camera sensor is very dirty and cannot be cleaned without direct contact, we recommend professional sensor cleaning by an authorised Leica Service workshop. You can arrange to have this done by contacting Leica Customer Care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 15, 2014 Share #59 Posted July 15, 2014 I think that mail has been torn to pieces on this forum (and elsewhere) and suspect that Leica regrets having sent it. Anyway, I am sure there is a professional cleaning service quite a bit closer than 1800 Km. Btw. the attitude of your dealer is a bit surprising, to say the least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest volker_m Posted July 15, 2014 Share #60 Posted July 15, 2014 I suspect there there is a problem here as cameras like the D800e do not offer sensor cleaning either. They do. Nikon | Imaging Products | Nikon's original technology - Nikon D800/D800E It is is course not the sensor itself that vibrates but the filter glass in front of it. I think the entire sensor is mounted on a vibrating platform. See picture in the link above, middle of the page. err: you are right, the text says "vibrate the optical low-pass filter" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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