M240 vs MP (a la carte)

[honcho]

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.....to conclude, I've been mentally going in circles, with film camera MP (ostrich a la carte and it's bloody gorgeous) vs digital camera M240 black (impressive feature set).....,.

 

You're a little behind the game. More than a few replies here are from people who have moved on from mentally going in circles with film camera 'A' vs digital camera 'B' to mentally going round in circles with digital camera 'A' vs digital camera 'B'.

 

You won't get any sense out of them. I suggest you learn film and learn digital, and then make your own mind up about whether you need a scanner or an X-Box.

 

What could be easier?

[stryker]

 

You won't get any sense out of them. I suggest you learn film and learn digital, and then make your own mind up about whether you need a scanner or an X-Box.

 

What could be easier?

 

 

I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand why you brought up an Xbox. There's no need for snide remarks on this thread.

Anyway, thanks to what others have said, and looking at the 'film vs digital' threads on this forum, I've come to the conclusion that digital will suite my needs best. The wider dynamic range on m240 photos are fantastic, and some have said the black and white images taken from the m240 (with some adjustments of course) can rival the Monochrom.

 

 

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[honcho]

I'm not so sure you are really interested in answers. You already know what you want but it might help you to understand why you do, instead of comparing ostrich skin with dynamic range.

 

You see, there is far more to film photography than waiting for your negatives to come back from the lab just to immerse yourself in the 'chore' of scanning them.

 

There is far more to using a digital camera than chimping and there is far more to making images than blowing '7G' (as you put it).

[jaapv]

Come on, guys, if somebody is going around in circles in his mind, why shouldn't he ask for opinions of likeminded folks? No need to bite his head off.

I'm undecided whether to have a strawberry or a chocolate icecream right now. The chocolate one is 25 cent more expensive. I have 3 Euro saved up for the purchase.... I was going to ask for help deciding on the forum, but I won't now....

[stryker]

I'm not so sure you are really interested in answers. You already know what you want but it might help you to understand why you do, instead of comparing ostrich skin with dynamic range.

 

You see, there is far more to film photography than waiting for your negatives to come back from the lab just to immerse yourself in the 'chore' of scanning them.

 

There is far more to using a digital camera than chimping and there is far more to making images than blowing '7G' (as you put it).

 

 

I don't know which thread you are reading, but not once did I compare 'ostrich skin with dynamic range'. I am looking at photography as an experience and another side to my life, it's not just about taking the photos. For me, it's about the camera itself, the process and the feeling of reward in each image, and, in the case of digital, fine tuning each photo to bring out the best qualities.

I am detecting a hint of snobbery here, as you and others have taken issue with my vernacular of '7G', but alas this is nothing more than a forum on which users are encouraged to submit questions pertaining to issues some may not understand or even find trivial. As a university student, and saving 10 years for an instrument integral to my most favorite past time, I was interested in others' experience in film vs digital and how the 'Leica effect' has changed their view on this.

 

In addition if I'm spending 7G on a camera, I expect it to hold up after several years of use, and seeing how Leica is ditching M8 users to the wayside (screen repairs no longer available), I am simply trying to maximize my value from a camera of such quality.

 

 

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[honcho]

.....for me, it's about the camera itself, the process and the feeling of reward in each image, and, in the case of digital, fine tuning each photo to bring out the best qualities......I am detecting a hint of snobbery here, as you and others have taken issue with my vernacular of '7G'.....I am simply trying to maximize my value from a camera of such quality.....

 

I disagree with your apparent concept that 'fine tuning' is only applicable to digital photography. If you really believe that, you have not explored the alternatives properly.

 

You will only maximise your value from anything, including cameras, when you have made a decision based on your own experience and aspirations. Most other considerations are secondary.

 

Nothing to do with 'snobbery', I'm afraid.

[Archiver]

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In the film vs digital threads, I often mention that my first Leica was the M9, and so enamoured of the M9 I was, I bought a mint silver M7 about seven months later. Thoughts of using the M9 and M7 as a team ran through me. Thoughts of buying a MP or a la carte Leica came to mind.

 

But as much as I loved the handling and feel of the M7, I just didn't shoot much film. Oh, I used to shoot a fair bit of film prior to getting the M7, one or two rolls a month alongside digital shooting for a few years and one roll per day on special overseas trips, but ironically, I haven't shot much with the M7 at all.

 

The M9 simply has the flexibility and convenience of digital; likewise with the M240. You can change ISO whenever you want, convert to black and white or whatever other grading and processing you want, and the learning process is just so much faster. Feedback is instant. But as you know, shooting film is lots of fun, it creates a look all its own, and there is a thrill in getting images some time after you have shot them.

 

For the best of both worlds, you could 'drop 7G's' on a secondhand M9 or M9-P and a M6 TTL or classic. An M9 can be had for $3000, and a M6 for around $1000. That's two cameras that are functionally identical to the M240 and MP. Your remaining $3000 could buy you an excellent secondhand Summicron 50 and Elmarit 28, which you can switch between cameras as you wish, and fulfill your desires for both digital convenience and learning and Leica film shooting.

 

An alternative is to get a M6 TTL, functionally identical to the MP, and an array of good lenses. Summicron 50, Summarit 75, Elmarit or Summicron 28. Don't overlook the excellent Zeiss lenses, or even the Voigtlanders, either. But just the M6 TTL and a Summicron 50 will give you a wonderful start, and can be sold for about the same amount of money if rangefinder shooting doesn't click with you after all. And if it does, you can bide your time and get a MP or M9 or M240 later.

 

As for a M240 vs MP a la carte: you do need to consider the future expenses associated with those cameras. You will undoubtedly need to buy large external harddrives to hold your images from either cameras. You would need to buy a good scanner that will do justice to your MP and lenses, if you went that way. You would need a decent computer to allow Lightroom to process M files quickly.

 

And of course, you would need to buy and develop film if you went with the MP. Depending on where you live, buying and developing film could be quite an expensive exercise. In Australia, it's at least $20 for dev/scan/print for a single roll of colour negative film, more if it's slide. Don't ask how much single rolls of good film cost in Australia, either.

 

I still harbour the occasional thought of getting a gorgeous black or silver MP, or even getting an a la carte body made for me. But I'd have to be shooting a lot of film to justify that kind of expense.

 

And as others have mentioned. buying a Leica is not an 'investment' in the sense of something that will grow in value in the future. It's a significant purchase that will hopefully reward you with years and years of enjoyment and good photography. The good thing is, you don't have to drop 7 G's on a single camera to get that.

[jaapv]

I and seeing how Leica is ditching M8 users to the wayside (screen repairs no longer available),

That is a very negative spin on a situation that has been fully explained. Whatever one may think of the cause and solution, even Leica's harshest critics did not find anything of a ditching by the wayside mentality.

[stryker]

Ah ok. I do understand you can also fine tune analog film after scan, but RAW is much more versatile (can't really compare the two). So what you're saying is film vs digital is a moot point, as it's what ever the user feels most comfortable with. I see.

 

With regards to the snobbery comment I made, I couldn't think of any other reason why people would selectively quote '7G'.

 

No need to be afraid by the way.

 

 

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[stryker]

In the film vs digital threads, I often mention that my first Leica was the M9, and so enamoured of the M9 I was, I bought a mint silver M7 about seven months later. Thoughts of using the M9 and M7 as a team ran through me. Thoughts of buying a MP or a la carte Leica came to mind.

 

But as much as I loved the handling and feel of the M7, I just didn't shoot much film. Oh, I used to shoot a fair bit of film prior to getting the M7, one or two rolls a month alongside digital shooting for a few years and one roll per day on special overseas trips, but ironically, I haven't shot much with the M7 at all.

 

The M9 simply has the flexibility and convenience of digital; likewise with the M240. You can change ISO whenever you want, convert to black and white or whatever other grading and processing you want, and the learning process is just so much faster. Feedback is instant. But as you know, shooting film is lots of fun, it creates a look all its own, and there is a thrill in getting images some time after you have shot them.

 

For the best of both worlds, you could 'drop 7G's' on a secondhand M9 or M9-P and a M6 TTL or classic. An M9 can be had for $3000, and a M6 for around $1000. That's two cameras that are functionally identical to the M240 and MP. Your remaining $3000 could buy you an excellent secondhand Summicron 50 and Elmarit 28, which you can switch between cameras as you wish, and fulfill your desires for both digital convenience and learning and Leica film shooting.

 

An alternative is to get a M6 TTL, functionally identical to the MP, and an array of good lenses. Summicron 50, Summarit 75, Elmarit or Summicron 28. Don't overlook the excellent Zeiss lenses, or even the Voigtlanders, either. But just the M6 TTL and a Summicron 50 will give you a wonderful start, and can be sold for about the same amount of money if rangefinder shooting doesn't click with you after all. And if it does, you can bide your time and get a MP or M9 or M240 later.

 

As for a M240 vs MP a la carte: you do need to consider the future expenses associated with those cameras. You will undoubtedly need to buy large external harddrives to hold your images from either cameras. You would need to buy a good scanner that will do justice to your MP and lenses, if you went that way. You would need a decent computer to allow Lightroom to process M files quickly.

 

And of course, you would need to buy and develop film if you went with the MP. Depending on where you live, buying and developing film could be quite an expensive exercise. In Australia, it's at least $20 for dev/scan/print for a single roll of colour negative film, more if it's slide. Don't ask how much single rolls of good film cost in Australia, either.

 

I still harbour the occasional thought of getting a gorgeous black or silver MP, or even getting an a la carte body made for me. But I'd have to be shooting a lot of film to justify that kind of expense.

 

And as others have mentioned. buying a Leica is not an 'investment' in the sense of something that will grow in value in the future. It's a significant purchase that will hopefully reward you with years and years of enjoyment and good photography. The good thing is, you don't have to drop 7 G's on a single camera to get that.

 

 

Hmmm...yes. Thank you. You have solidified my decision. Digital for me. I will probably go for the 240 just because it's compatible with my SLR zoom lenses.

 

Thank you!!!

 

 

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[honcho]

....In addition if I'm spending 7G on a camera, I expect it to hold up after several years of use...

 

You may need to lower your expectations, only time will tell. What I can guarantee is is that the months of saving, and ultimately spending, that '7G' will become distant memory much sooner than you may currently think.

[honcho]

Ah ok. I do understand you can also fine tune analog film after scan, but RAW is much more versatile (can't really compare the two).....

 

But you don't seem to understand that you can fine-tune the negative or transparency before the scan.

 

Which brings us nicely back to my earlier comments about understanding the processes before being seduced by anything else.

[rirakuma]

This is so very true, when I first bought my M it was much more than I've ever spent on camera gear. In fact it was worth nearly more than my entire collection but I had lots of fun using the rangefinder and I don't regret the purchase. Its devalued a lot since the first release but for me its been worth every penny.

 

You may need to lower your expectations, only time will tell. What I can guarantee is is that the months of saving, and ultimately spending, that '7G' will become distant memory much sooner than you may currently think.

[stryker]

But you don't seem to understand that you can fine-tune the negative before the scan.

 

Which brings us nicely back to my earlier comments about understanding the processes before being seduced by anything else.

 

 

True, true. I have worked more with digital than film. I don't think I'll be able to truly appreciate film (and the MP) until several years of working with it.

 

 

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[Stealth3kpl]

It's really worth getting some time with each option if you can, before deciding. I had film Ms for sometime before moving to a couple of M9s which I'd been hankering after, often seeing others' excellent results. However, the experience just wasn't for me. I've now settled on two beautiful a la carte MPs which suit me down to the ground. Yes, they were expensive and, though I only use film now (99%) I don't shoot tons of film, but when I'm on holiday or on a short trip I really enjoy the experience and results.

Get in touch with Calumet to see if you can arrange a "loaner".

Pete

[stryker]

This is so very true, when I first bought my M it was much more than I've ever spent on camera gear. In fact it was worth nearly more than my entire collection but I had lots of fun using the rangefinder and I don't regret the purchase. Its devalued a lot since the first release but for me its been worth every penny.

 

 

I am glad you said that. Never before have I even spent half of what I've saved up on a single piece of gear.

 

 

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[honcho]

There has been no better time, ever, than the present for photographers who enjoy using film. We have more options available than ever before and at least as much potential creative versatility as digital-only practitioners, regardless of whether our preference is for a hybrid or fully wet workflow.

 

The key to enjoying film photography is to embrace it totally and with complete understanding of what it is not. It takes time and patience.

 

If you can't do that, then you will only dabble at the margins, which will inevitably lead to dissatisfaction and misplaced blame.

[Peter H]

Come on, guys, if somebody is going around in circles in his mind, why shouldn't he ask for opinions of likeminded folks? No need to bite his head off.

I'm undecided whether to have a strawberry or a chocolate icecream right now. The chocolate one is 25 cent more expensive. I have 3 Euro saved up for the purchase.... I was going to ask for help deciding on the forum, but I won't now....

 

You want ice cream?

 

You've come to the right man!

[jaapv]

I can't decide... I might want an Espresso Macchiata instead. Or maybe a Cappucino.....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[stryker]

I can't decide... I might want an Espresso Macchiata instead. Or maybe a Cappucino.....

 

Thank you for adding information of substance to this...