TheGodParticle/Hari Posted May 5, 2014 Share #1 Posted May 5, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, I have a strong itch to get one of these to use on my Monochrom I'm building a set of "character" lenses for my MM I am not interested in the newer Leica offerings or the Zeiss/CV/other 21 mm lenses I will use my Frankenfinder so all considerations around the VF are already taken care of I do know they will not meter with my MM All that said, what are your comments between these two and can you share images taken with these two lenses? Images shot with the MM greatly appreciated but other bodies also welcome Many Thanks for your inputs TGP 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Hi TheGodParticle/Hari, Take a look here Super Angulon 21/f4 vs Super Angulon 21/f3.4. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted May 5, 2014 Share #2 Posted May 5, 2014 I haven't tried the f/4 version of the SA, but searching and reading through forum posts will suggest that the 3.4 is considered to be the better lens - still very characterful but with relatively high performance for its design era. I have a 3.4 and despite its problems on digital full frame colour, still think its a superb lens even though I have a SE too! It is superbly sharp centrally and falls off in terms of sharpness/micro-detail/resolution/etc (whatever you want to call it) towards the corners and of course vignettes. It also has a square diaphragm which produces interesting bokeh occasionally. FWIW it was a Schneider design (by Werner Wagner apparently) and there was still some technical data about this lens on Schneider's website last time I looked! I tend to shoot it as a B&W lens on my M9 and colour on the M8. I can highly recommend it. Its quirks are S7 or E48 filters - not difficult to get and can be sourced cheaply if you find an appropriate dealer who doesn't want to 'sit' on them and is realistic about their value. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted May 5, 2014 Share #3 Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Hi, been using the SA 3.4 with great pleasure on the M9 and the Hexar RF. On the MM, you'll be fine and might even enjoy the original vignetting. 48mm filter are pretty easy to source. The SA 4 comes in 39mm. Having sent my 21 SA 4 for a complete rehaul at Focal Point, I cannot yet compare and fully respond to your query but it was already doing well on my M8 (after correcting some super low contrast area due to a condensation problem in the front lens module), see last shot below. 21 SA 3.4 on M9 shot at f8 1/2 and ISO 160: jeu d'ombres by JM Ferriere, on Flickr 21 SA 3.4 on Hexar RF with velvia 64 converted to BW: Marcos, em Santa Teresa by JM Ferriere, on Flickr 21 SA 3.4 on M8: Fazenda Vista Alegre by JM Ferriere, on Flickr 21 SA 4 on M8: crianças by JM Ferriere, on Flickr Both are great contenders ! I'd say the SA 4 has even a softer character and would shine on the MM IMHO ! Cheers JM Edited May 5, 2014 by jmanivelle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted May 5, 2014 Hi, been using the SA 3.4 with great pleasure on the M9 and the Hexar RF. On the MM, you'll be fine and might even enjoy the original vignetting. 48mm filter are pretty easy to source. The SA 4 comes in 39mm. Having sent my 21 SA 4 for a complete rehaul at Focal Point, I cannot yet compare and fully respond to your query but it was already doing well on my M8 (after correcting some super low contrast area due to a condensation problem in the front lens module), see last shot below. 21 SA 3.4 on M9 shot at f8 1/2 and ISO 160: jeu d'ombres by JM Ferriere, on Flickr 21 SA 3.4 on Hexar RF with velvia 64 converted to BW: Marcos, em Santa Teresa by JM Ferriere, on Flickr 21 SA 3.4 on M8: Fazenda Vista Alegre by JM Ferriere, on Flickr 21 SA 4 on M8: crianças by JM Ferriere, on Flickr Both are great contenders ! I'd say the SA 4 has even a softer character and would shine on the MM IMHO ! Cheers JM Gorgeous images jmanivelle! The lens shines in your capable hands and your vision in b&w Do share some images when your f4 comes back home 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted May 5, 2014 Share #5 Posted May 5, 2014 Gorgeous images jmanivelle! The lens shines in your capable hands and your vision in b&w Do share some images when your f4 comes back home Thanks a lot Hari ! I sure will, hopefully soon. Do let us know when you get such a lens! Cheers Jean-Marc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 5, 2014 Share #6 Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) The SA 21 f4 is lot nice an item to see and handle, but it has a significant vignetting (even on M8...); the 3,4 is all another lens, perfectly usable (apart vague metering... but same applies to the f4) ; one can make a good use of both, anyway. Edited May 5, 2014 by luigi bertolotti 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_S Posted May 6, 2014 Share #7 Posted May 6, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am not interested in the newer Leica offerings or the Zeiss/CV/other 21 mm lenses Unless it is simply a desire to collect older Leica lenses (which in this case were not made by Leitz anyway), I would not rule out the Zeiss or CV lenses. The C Biogon 4.5 ZM and the Color Skopar F4.0 Pancake II are similar slightly-asymmetric biogon lens designs with a classical look and little or no distortion. Both are reported to work nicely on the MM body without the flare of the early lenses. I use the latter and I was surprised at the absence of vignetting when manually-coded as a Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8, 11134 lens. Nick 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted May 6, 2014 Unless it is simply a desire to collect older Leica lenses (which in this case were not made by Leitz anyway), I would not rule out the Zeiss or CV lenses. The C Biogon 4.5 ZM and the Color Skopar F4.0 Pancake II are similar slightly-asymmetric biogon lens designs with a classical look and little or no distortion. Both are reported to work nicely on the MM body without the flare of the early lenses. I use the latter and I was surprised at the absence of vignetting when manually-coded as a Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8, 11134 lens. Nick It's not the itch to collect as much as the itch to have more "character" lenses - vignetting, corner fall off, spherical aberration and the likes. Yes ... both the versions were made by Schneider and resold by Leitz under their name. To my taste, it adds to the overall "look" of my MM images. Which is why I mostly use the Noctilux f1 on the MM. The c-biogon 21/4.5 seems to be a terrific lens but my need is for something with more "special effects" to the tune of what Jean-Marc shared above 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daymadi-T Posted April 28, 2016 Share #9 Posted April 28, 2016 The perfect lens for street photography _ on film or in digital 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the warrior Posted April 29, 2016 Share #10 Posted April 29, 2016 Very good photos all. I like the f4 shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lord Posted March 27, 2018 Share #11 Posted March 27, 2018 I have just bought an SA f4. Now the 4 week wait for UK customs to decide how much to con me for... I do like the 21mm aesthetic, missed my old elmarit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisson Posted November 22, 2018 Share #12 Posted November 22, 2018 I'm interested in shooting the super angulon 21 3.4 on my M5 camera and read that the later serial number versions (about 250xxxx and after) have a notched mount that does not interfere with the M5 metering arm. Does anyone use this lens on their M5? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 24, 2018 Share #13 Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Hello Ellison, Welcome to the Forum. The purpose of the "notch" on various lenses is to insure that the metering arm DOES NOT raise up into the measuring position. When the M5 has no lens in it the metering arm is lowered into an out of the way spot. When lenses WITHOUT the notch (Most lenses.) are mounted on the M5: The metering arm is raised so that measurements can be made. When lenses WITH the notch are mounted: The metering arm is NOT raised into position. The notches are cut into the lens mounts when the rear elements would contact the metering arm & do damage. The metering arm NOT being raised means that metering has to be done with a separate meter. If a person uses an earlier "un-notched" version of lenses that were later supplied with a "notch": The metering system will be DAMAGED. Leitz used to provide a service to fit appropriate "notches" on earlier lens where necessary. Leica may (Or possibly may not.) provide the same service today. If the lens you are considering using does NOT already have the appropriate "notch": You might check with Leica, or an independent repair person, to see if this service is currently available. Best Regards, Michael Edited November 24, 2018 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellisson Posted November 25, 2018 Share #14 Posted November 25, 2018 Many thanks, Michael. This confirms what I have read about the lens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lord Posted November 25, 2018 Share #15 Posted November 25, 2018 Love my S-A 21 f4, it has hardly come off the M3 since I got it. Some examples on my insta. fwiw Ken Rockwell seems to really rate the f4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted November 25, 2018 Share #16 Posted November 25, 2018 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr 21 SA 4 LTM - IIIg - Portra 800 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr 21 SA 4 LTM - IIIg - Portra 800 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/226557-super-angulon-21f4-vs-super-angulon-21f34/?do=findComment&comment=3636969'>More sharing options...
Adrian Lord Posted November 25, 2018 Share #17 Posted November 25, 2018 That second shot is particularly superb, JMF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted November 25, 2018 Share #18 Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Adrian Lord said: That second shot is particularly superb, JMF. Thanks Adrian ! 21 SA 4 LTM - IIIg - Portra 800 : Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr Edited November 25, 2018 by JMF Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr no Museu do Amanhã by JM__, on Flickr ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/226557-super-angulon-21f4-vs-super-angulon-21f34/?do=findComment&comment=3636984'>More sharing options...
ellisson Posted December 5, 2018 Share #19 Posted December 5, 2018 I have the S-A 21 3.4 with the rectangular 12501 lens hood. Rather than removing the hood and using the front lens cap when not actively shooting with the lens, I would like to find a snap on hood cap. The dimensions of the 12501 hood over which a cap would be placed are approximately 6.5 x 4.7 cm. I have not found a hood cap for this lens, and when questioning sellers about the use of hood caps made for other hoods such as the 14212 cap for the 35 summilux ASPH FLE lens hood (12458) the answer is that it will not fit. I was told that dimensions of the 14040 hood cap for the 35 1.4 ASPH non-FLE lens measures 6.7 x 5.3 cm: close but still too big for the 12501 hood. Lens hood and hood cap dimensions are not provided. I guess I could try to modify the 14040 hood, but I still wonder: Is there any rectangular cap that fits the 12501 hood? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted December 5, 2018 Share #20 Posted December 5, 2018 Can't help, but I did wonder about getting one 3D printed? Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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