jaapv Posted June 12, 2014 Share #181 Posted June 12, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The testers are under NDA, I'm afraid. (I'm not one of them;)) But I can say that I expect positive reactions in the Forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 12, 2014 Posted June 12, 2014 Hi jaapv, Take a look here New Firmware on May 24th. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted June 12, 2014 Share #182 Posted June 12, 2014 I will wait. Please share the list of improvements. I don't think our Admin can do like this : when the FW will be released, Leica (hopingfully) will detail the improvements THEY will have decided to implement, also on the basis of B tester results ; personally, being (oh poor myself... ) in the Software world for >20 years, and managing a Company who always (even now) is making B tests for an important multinational Sw concern... I know well that not all the improvements tested are implemented into the released code... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted June 12, 2014 Share #183 Posted June 12, 2014 I guess Leica's to do list for the programmers looked like this. If they only used a normal font and some paragraphs, it would be much easier to read for them. Or maybe they are coding in comic sans, just for the fun of it... Yours was a great contribution to this thread. Congratulations for putting me down. I trust it made you feel good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 12, 2014 Share #184 Posted June 12, 2014 Yours was a great contribution to this thread. Congratulations for putting me down. I trust it made you feel good. Dan, I think you are taking this too seriously. Tookaphotof was using a humorous approach to make the point about the font, which on some systems can be hard to read. Also, breaking a large piece of text into paragraphs is another convention to make reading easy. His comment is legitimate and I cannot see it as a 'put down' of you. OTOH, sarcasm is not generally appreciated on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 13, 2014 Share #185 Posted June 13, 2014 was that a humorous comment? Really? I must have missed the set-up- and the punchline... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satijntje Posted June 13, 2014 Share #186 Posted June 13, 2014 was that a humorous comment? Really? I must have missed the set-up- and the punchline... You should not underestimate the role of smileys:D:D:D John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 13, 2014 Share #187 Posted June 13, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) was that a humorous comment? Really? I must have missed the set-up- and the punchline... Yes and yes, but don't lose sleep over it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdannn Posted June 13, 2014 Share #188 Posted June 13, 2014 Yes and yes, but don't lose sleep over it. As the original poster I promise I will not lose sleep over it. I think the person who posted his comment about my font and paragraphs, or lack of them, was KIDDING ON THE SQUARE. And that's OK. My real point still stands: The Leica guy who has the 50 beta testers out there will not even tell us what's in the upgraded firmware. He knows full well what's there in my opinion; so what's the secret? And too, my point was not just about this upcoming m240 firmware. It was about the lack of well deserved and promised firmware updates on the m8, m8.2, m9, and m9p. There are still many people still shooting with those fine cameras and never got the upgrades promised. I especially take note that the m9 was quoted by Leica as, "a camera for life". I have read in other threads that the m8 camera's lcd cannot be replaced if broken. Leica won't or can't do it. Maybe the m9's hardware will soon not be supported either. Would anyone have bought an m8 if they knew in advance that in a few years they could not get their LCD replaced? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 13, 2014 Share #189 Posted June 13, 2014 It is perfectly normal for beta products to be covered by an NDA. From toastmakers to cars to software. Nor has the administrator of this forum any control over the testing. It is done by ( not the least) forum members at Leica's request. Heck, even people who are not testers but in the know are honour-bound not to reveal the contents and progress of the testing. Don't conflate this thread with other gripes. The M8 LCD situtiation has been chewed to mush on this forum. It had nothing to do with ill will by Leica. Hardware will be supported for at least ten years after production end, barring disaster, act of God or circumstances beyond control, in which case an adequate solution will be proposed. I can assure you that remaining bugs are nothing unusual in firmware. Ford and Jaguar never managed to resolve the locked boot bug in their Mondeo/X-type software during the ten-year run of the X-Type production, for instance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted June 13, 2014 Share #190 Posted June 13, 2014 I lost a good nights sleep myself now! On a serious note, I bought a secondhand M8.2 to see what the digital M was all about. I bought it because I knew I could eventually upgrade if my screen ever got bad. Turned out my sensor had some issues from the start apart from the stain I saw on the screen later. Albeit a bit too quick for my bankaccount I now have an M240 firing away on a daily basis. I knew beforehand Leica would make an offer to people with a faulty M8. The service of this had certainly colored my pink glasses to bright flashy Leica pink! Concerning the firmware update, I mostly shoot manual mode, so haven't encountered any issues myself. Fixing yourself on a date will only frustrate yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted June 13, 2014 Share #191 Posted June 13, 2014 Jaap, you really can't compare British car manufacturers with Leica. Believe me, I know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 13, 2014 Share #192 Posted June 13, 2014 the issue of the m8 lcd is tangentially relevant to this discussion: some people questions Leica's commitment to its existing users- and this questioning can be service related or firmware related. For what it's worth: my own take on the M8 LCD issue is that even if Leica had an infinite supply of screens: the cost of the repair outweighs the value of doing it. The high cost of the repair seems to be due to distinct issues: poor design of the camera in regards to serviceability and Leica's natural tendency to charge the Earth whenever possible. These issues will undoubtedly affect the serviceability of the M9 going forward- and if nothing changes the M240 as well, and so on. When you combine the prohibitive cost of repairs with Leica's demonstrable track record of NOT supporting their digital cameras via firmware update- or at least being very slow and very frugal in such 'support'- an overall impression is generated: Leica do not support their existing M digital products/customers very well. I wish it was not so, but what other conclusion can one come to having owned an m8, m8.2 m9, m9-p and now M? I can's recall a single update over all those years that excited me much... Obviously: there is always time to change course! I think firmware is an area where a camera company can generate a lot of goodwill from their existing customers: I cannot say how happy I have been with the regular updates Fuji made to my X-100 camera. Each firmware upgrade added significantly to the cameras functionality. Let's hope Leica can do something similar- and in a timely fashion! Hope springs eternal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 13, 2014 Share #193 Posted June 13, 2014 Jacques, you were there the LCD issue was really circumstances beyond control. To extrapolate it to "Leica does not support" is just a rhetoric misconstruction. As to the time it takes for the firmware update, maybe it would have been wiser to do window-dresssing incremental ones like some other brands do instead of doing a comprehensive one that takes longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 13, 2014 Share #194 Posted June 13, 2014 For what it's worth: my own take on the M8 LCD issue is that even if Leica had an infinite supply of screens: the cost of the repair outweighs the value of doing it. The high cost of the repair seems to be due to distinct issues: ... According to Leica, their supply of screens is zero. The availability of replacement screens is zero. The question of the replacement cost becomes a bit academic. That's all well known for some time. Please do take your issues elsewhere. This is the New Firmware thread. The performance of Leica Camera AG with respect to software development and quality is - in terms of number & quality of products and presumed size of development staff on a par with software giants like Microsoft, Apple and Oracle. Perhaps someone can supply trustworthy data about the quality of the firmware of the first production runs of the first models of other digital cameras in the market? Think in batch sizes of the first 10k cameras produced of each model and in terms of the first of a long series of related models. I think it hardly reasonable to buy knowingly one of the first few thousands of the first model s of a new product line and and then expect it to have fewer and lesser issues than other products which are in their n-th iteration and have been sold in lots of orders of magnitude larger than those under discussion here. If you don't want to take the risks involved with buying from a late-comer with very small production volumes, do not buy from a late-comer with a very small production volume. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 13, 2014 Share #195 Posted June 13, 2014 According to Leica, their supply of screens is zero. The availability of replacement screens is zero. The question of the replacement cost becomes a bit academic. That's all well known for some time. Please do take your issues elsewhere. This is the New Firmware thread. Sorry but you entirely misunderstand me: I do not and never had 'issues' with the LCD debacle. I steered mostly clear of it. My point is that even if Leica had infinite screens it would not be economically feasible to pay Leica to install them at $1000USD which is what they charged when they could do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 13, 2014 Share #196 Posted June 13, 2014 Jacques, you were there the LCD issue was really circumstances beyond control. To extrapolate it to "Leica does not support" is just a rhetoric misconstruction.As to the time it takes for the firmware update, maybe it would have been wiser to do window-dresssing incremental ones like some other brands do instead of doing a comprehensive one that takes longer. to extrapolate what you did from what I wrote is 'just a rhetorical misconstruction' Jaap. My point was not that the lack of LCD's ='s 'Leica does not support' but rather that the outlandish price of replacing such an LCD should it even exist renders the exercise pointless. It's all very hypothetical I know... The crux is: if the cost of a repair outweighs its own value it is no real 'support' at all to offer it. Furthermore the updates to my Fuji X-100 camera were certainly not 'window dressing'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 13, 2014 Share #197 Posted June 13, 2014 My point was not that the lack of LCD's ='s 'Leica does not support' but rather that the outlandish price of replacing such an LCD should it even exist renders the exercise pointless. It is indeed pointless to speculate on the price of an item that does not exist. The price you are complaining about solely exists in your imagination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted June 13, 2014 Share #198 Posted June 13, 2014 actually it exists in my memory. It is what Leica charged me to do it some years ago. I imagine if they had any screens it would be even higher now? And when they did it for that price: they didn't replace the scratched LCD cover even though they had promised the camera would look 'Like new'. But that's another story... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperfiction Posted June 13, 2014 Share #199 Posted June 13, 2014 Perhaps not immediately pertinent but it gives some perspective: The Sony RX1 was released in September 2012 - to date, there have been no firmware updates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 13, 2014 Share #200 Posted June 13, 2014 It is indeed pointless to speculate on the price of an item that does not exist. The price you are complaining about solely exists in your imagination. Especially as the repair of a manufacturing defect would certainly have been a courtesy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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