"leica photography" vs "m8 photography"

[bradreiman]

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any comment?

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[jaapv]

Not for me - I see technical arguments only as a way to present content. So # 2 is secondary to #1. Nothing new, it was so when Barnack started the thing-unchanged now.

[bradreiman]

I was expecting to hear from you on this. I agree Jaap. The second is obviously an extreme example but...are we seeing a dilution of what was once an easily recognized "leica look" or "glow". when I got into M photography I was told to practice alot and use the strengths of the rangefinder system to my advantage. this resulted in an elevation of my photography skills. each time I developed a roll of film I learned something new. the difficulty in using a rangefinder kept it within a subset of photographers who found it worth the extra effort to get the beautiful images like salgado's. does the m8 "dumb down" rangefinder photography? your images jaap suggest no but you are one of the exceptions....b

[adan]

Well - you'd really have to see what SALGADO does with an M8 (if ever) before you can make a judgement. Although S.S. also uses (or used) R6 cameras, so that may not even be an RF shot.

 

I also have to wonder if you aren't confusing dramatically processed B&W (dynamic range freaks would howl over the lack of detail in that worker's chest) with "Leica Photography".

 

Or a dramatic subject (skillfully handled, of course) with "Leica Photography". Never having had the opportunity (if that's the right word) to descend into the Dantean tableau of a Bolivian silver mine with any camera - RF or not, Leica or not, digital or not - I don't know if I would have done better, worse, or just as well with an M8.

 

Here's what I CAN do with the M8, if I want - although I'm primarily a color photographer:

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[telewatt]

Hello Bradley,

 

..to send a Salgado picture without mention the copyright is.. ....

 

Andy is right....Your idea does not work...S.S. has done a lot of with R5 / R6 cameras...

 

..and many MAGNUM Photographer use other cameras....

 

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this is Marc Riboud 2007...

 

 

 

Regards,

Jan

[bradreiman]

absolutely beautiful work mr piper. and you have been using leica cameras for years so you too are obviously in the "control group". by the way-i always find your posts incredibly informative. i don't recall seeing much of your work but this is the kind of photography im into. outstanding. the salgado example is only an example and a crappy screenshot. most of his work that i have seen is well exposed tho. could have been an r sure. any of the shots you posted could have been the example in my post....b

[adan]

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Thank you, sir!

 

I don't think your question is entirely misplaced. OTOH the M8 has only been out a few months, and it does/has/will take a bit of time for truly great M8 shots to filter into existence (after all, how many great Leica shots were made in the first 6 months of the original Barnack camera, or the original M3?)

 

I imagine there have been miilions of family Kodachromes snapped with M3s-M6s that would tend to dilute Leica's reputation if they were revealed in public. And to some extent that's what we've seen so far - the test shots and "cat" pictures as we get used to a new tool and begin to build up skill in using it.

 

BTW - really nice to see Marc Riboud at work. His books from China and North Vietnam had a huge influence on my early development as a photographer.

[wlaidlaw]

I am very happy with my M8. I think I am composing much better and with far more thought than I was with previous AF digitals/SLR's, including various Leica ones. I am converting far more of my DNG's into B&W and printing these. It has rekindled my desire to make special trips just to take photos.

 

Attached taken with Elmar-M 90mm f2.8 and of course M8.

 

Wilson

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[stunsworth]

99.99% of all photographs taken fall into the snapshot category. Of course the M8 doesn't 'dumb down' rangefinder photography, only the photographer can do that :-)

 

The basic premise behind the thread is flawed IMHO as it's the photographer who takes the photographs not the camera. Salgado with an M8 would produce better images than I do, I have no doubt on that score <grin>

 

Salgado is/was using Pentax MF kit rather than Leica for his latest project.

[jaapv]

Thank you for your kind words, Brad. I can only speak for myself. I find the M8 - as a tool- has improved my photography, in the sense that a carpenter can make a straighter cut with a better saw. In that way the M8 has done just the opposite of dumbing down RF photography. It has, as well, rekindled interest in RF photography and culture, which, again, is a good thing. The downside is- and that is what you are referring to, that it enables the photographer to produce a far higher number of mediocre shots, and as such has watered down quality. I think that is not much of a drawback - we simply have to search better for those great shots.

[hankg]

The more you shoot and the more feedback you get generally the more you will be able to improve and hone your vision. Digital allows you to get real time feedback and allows you to shoot without regard to film and processing costs (you already blew all your cash upfront).

 

I am not getting the point of the example of cyan drift on a blank wall next to a B+W shot. Image quality coming out of the equipment available today film or digital is light years ahead of what was available when some of the greatest images of the 20th century were produced. Photographers today producing the kind of work usually associated with Leica are using everything from medium format RF and SLR's, to 135 DSLR's, film M's and now the M8 as well. So equipment is putting no constraints on your ability to make images. The M8 provides all the advantages of digital in the M RF package bringing the RF option into the digital space. Just more choice at a time when you have more choices then any time in the history of photography (film and digital).

 

In summary I don't think there is any such thing as "Leica" photography. The compact rangefinder camera is associated with certain types of work which it is well adapted to. But the equipement does not define the photography, the photographer does. There are a lot of photographers producing "leica photography" today with other types of equipment.

[rob_x2004]

These days Leica discussion seems more about technical marvel or optical perfection rather than about a camera that can make a trip or a journey with you.

 

What was it Magnum guys used to say? One man one camera one lens and a roll of film and they would bring back something.

 

Modern Leica is losing 'adventure' I reckon.

[rosuna]

Great photographs Adan!!!!

[Guest sirvine]

If you take the Salgado example above, sharpen it up a bit, improve resolution in the background, improve recovery of shadow details, and drop it into a 10MP RAW file...then you have "M8 photography". Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Did we really expect M8 to be a "film Leica simulation machine" or "virtual M7"? If so, I can empathize with some disappointment.

[jelderfield]

The difference I feel is that the M8 changes things with (a) the increased depth of field - the 35 mm lens give a field of view close to a 50 (really 46mm) but keeps it's DOF - so that changes things and ( the strange choice of frame lines to be exact at 0.7m not at 2m which is how it was on the film cameras. I think the M8 can be "leica" photography but with some changes in our working styles to deal with the above changes.

Jonathan Elderfield Photography

[stunsworth]

Actually Jonathan I'm not sure the DOF argument is always valid.

 

One thing I've noticed using my M8 is that the DOF markings I used to use on the lens give obviously un-sharp results. For example with the M6 if I was shooting at say f8 I'd assume that I was safe to use the DOF indicated by the f5.6 markings on the lens. That doesn't seem to be the case with the M8.

[mgcd]

Actually Jonathan I'm not sure the DOF argument is always valid.

 

One thing I've noticed using my M8 is that the DOF markings I used to use on the lens give obviously un-sharp results. For example with the M6 if I was shooting at say f8 I'd assume that I was safe to use the DOF indicated by the f5.6 markings on the lens. That doesn't seem to be the case with the M8.

 

Steve - The very same can be said for the DMR so this is not specific to the M8.

 

Cheers,

[Jamie Roberts]

Actually Jonathan I'm not sure the DOF argument is always valid.

 

One thing I've noticed using my M8 is that the DOF markings I used to use on the lens give obviously un-sharp results. For example with the M6 if I was shooting at say f8 I'd assume that I was safe to use the DOF indicated by the f5.6 markings on the lens. That doesn't seem to be the case with the M8.

 

Steve--that's really interesting. It should be pretty close, shouldn't it?

 

I've found that rule of using 1 stop less for zone focus has worked just fine when I've used it (on wides, mostly).

 

Certainly in terms of DOF the 1.3 crop does change the field. The Noctilux seems downright "easy" to focus at f1.0--I wouldn't expect that at all on a full frame camera.

 

And while I don't have a film body here to compare it with, I know that there was a huge difference between shooting the 50 Summilux R at f1.4 on the 1ds2 or 5d than on the DMR (much thinner focal field on the 1ds2 / 5d).

[egibaud]

very simplistic ....

 

cyan colors???? and? I thought you were a BW only photographer !!!!

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[andybarton]

Steve - The very same can be said for the DMR so this is not specific to the M8.

 

Cheers,

 

I've noticed this too, on my DMR. I have taken to using two stops adjustment, but sometimes this doesn't seem enough.