rosuna Posted March 14, 2014 Share #41 Posted March 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) In other news, the pope is Catholic. WHAT???!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 Hi rosuna, Take a look here new Leica? x vario demolished?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted March 14, 2014 Share #42 Posted March 14, 2014 Is there any other kind of manufacturing? Component manufacture, nuts, bolts etc. Manufactured, but nothing's 'put together'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 14, 2014 Share #43 Posted March 14, 2014 Even children eventually accept that Father Christmas isn't real. Rubbish!!! I used to leave a mince pie for Father Christmas every Christmas Eve, and it had always gone by Christmas morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 14, 2014 Share #44 Posted March 14, 2014 My response earlier was based on what my dealer told me when I bought my X1 If later ones are made entirely in Germany, then that puts the Panasonic thing to bed IMO AFAIK, no Panaleica has ever had Made on Germany written on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 14, 2014 Share #45 Posted March 14, 2014 Andy, I suspect your info is correct and that some parts of the camera are made/assembled in Portugal and elsewhere, with final assembly, loading firmware, QC etc., taking place in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 14, 2014 Share #46 Posted March 14, 2014 Just like other Leicas Interesting that the brochure says something along the lines of "completely made in Germany" [from imported parts and sub-assemblies] <- bit missing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsv Posted March 14, 2014 Share #47 Posted March 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, they also said you can only do b&w with the M Monochrom. Cannot be true either. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsv Posted March 14, 2014 Share #48 Posted March 14, 2014 Just like other Leicas Interesting that the brochure says something along the lines of "completely made in Germany" [from imported parts and sub-assemblies] <- bit missing I think you're right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted March 15, 2014 Share #49 Posted March 15, 2014 I don't have much confidence in Digital cameras made in Germany, frankly I prefer this. Ken. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/223438-new-leica-x-vario-demolished/?do=findComment&comment=2549927'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2014 Share #50 Posted March 15, 2014 It wouldn’t make a bloddy bit of difference. I drive a highly electronic Japanese car. The posts in the brand forums are 1:1 interchangeable with the posts in this forum. The only things that differ are the brand name and the name of the aspect under attack. You should see the fight about the direction indicator blinking three times when the stalk is touched without any adjustment of the number of blinks in the menu. “like European cars i.e. BMW have”….And the 273 post thread about the “bugs” in the Wifi which struggles with some Android phones, and even longer one about the poor implementation of the handsfree., slow or no updates of the firmware, Etc…. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJDrew Posted March 15, 2014 Share #51 Posted March 15, 2014 This obsession with point of manufacture is so bizarre. I understand the primordial need to justify the elite status of luxury-priced purchases, but this takes it too far. It's a completely meaningless conversation - tools should be evaluated for what they are and what the do, not what kind of "story" surrounds them. I pray with all my might that the new camera is made in Asia, and may actually provide even a modestly reasonable value proposition. Heck, if they remove the red dot and charge $600 less, I'm all for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted March 15, 2014 Share #52 Posted March 15, 2014 This obsession with point of manufacture is so bizarre. I understand the primordial need to justify the elite status of luxury-priced purchases, but this takes it too far. I think that observation might be valid but only if one is discussing this issue of country of origin from the consumer's point of perspective solely in respect to perceived value and/or prestige, etc.. But there can be another side to all of this. And that's the issue of off-shoring labor. Before the multinational corporation model, manufacturers competed for labor. If factory A were paying higher wages than factory B, then the workers could walk across the street and work for factory B. Eventually factory B would have to increase wages in order to compete for that labor. Today, a corporation simply moves production across political borders. The workers in country A can no longer go across the street to work at factory B where there might be higher wages. They are bound by a political border. They are stuck with what the factories in their country are paying. And this sort of labor market (a restricted market due to political boundaries) has clearly become profitable for the corporations. And of course this is no issue if one is only concerned with the selling price of a product. We know that "Made in Thailand" keeps the retail prices down. But there are consumers whose decisions about what they purchase might also include concerns about the labor force that produced that product. And while there is an argument that multinationals have brought cash into developing countries (in the form of wages, even if they are very low) and provide work where there was none, there is still an argument that it takes away jobs and/or suppresses wages in developed countries. Or at the extreme, that workers in low wage countries are being overly exploited. I think it's more than just status as to what the country of origin is on the attached manufacturer's label (btw, manufacturers have fought to not require country of origin labeling requirements for all of these reasons.) Certainly some consumers are only interested in that status and what it means to them as a purchaser, but there are other reasons as to why one might be 'label conscious.' And that might have to do with political economy. And even about supporting (and keeping) jobs within one's own political borders, etc.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 16, 2014 Share #53 Posted March 16, 2014 This obsession with point of manufacture is so bizarre. I understand the primordial need to justify the elite status of luxury-priced purchases, but this takes it too far. It's a completely meaningless conversation - tools should be evaluated for what they are and what the do, not what kind of "story" surrounds them. I pray with all my might that the new camera is made in Asia, and may actually provide even a modestly reasonable value proposition. Heck, if they remove the red dot and charge $600 less, I'm all for it. As far as I am aware labour costs in Japan are comparable to those in Germany. As for offshoring to cheap labour countries there are a few considerations. The first is the old adage “pay peanuts get monkeys” the second is that it will only work for as long as the local work force has not twigged to the fact that they are being underpaid. I notice a distinct movement back to Europe of high-tech manufacture over the last few years, at least in my field, as computer aided production makes the labour cost less relevant and salaries in East Asia rise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaphilia Posted March 16, 2014 Share #54 Posted March 16, 2014 "The.me confirmed to us that the new Leica system camera will have an APS-C sensor." In other words, they read on some site that the sensor will be APS-C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJDrew Posted March 16, 2014 Share #55 Posted March 16, 2014 As far as I am aware labour costs in Japan are comparable to those in Germany. As for offshoring to cheap labour countries there are a few considerations. The first is the old adage “pay peanuts get monkeys” the second is that it will only work for as long as the local work force has not twigged to the fact that they are being underpaid. I notice a distinct movement back to Europe of high-tech manufacture over the last few years, at least in my field, as computer aided production makes the labour cost less relevant and salaries in East Asia rise. I recognize the socio-political issues surrounding manufacturing, labor and outsourcing. However, I am highly skeptical that the origin-obsessed Leicaphile is terribly interested in those details vs. the perceived prestige of a product made at the mother ship. You don't see a lot of comments along the line of "I am certain my X2 was completely made in Germany and your C Lux is from the Panny factory... Wage pressure in the Asian markets makes this a less econically feasible solution in the long term. HA HA!" It is more "My toy is more a real Leica than your toy" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 16, 2014 Share #56 Posted March 16, 2014 I recognize the socio-political issues surrounding manufacturing, labor and outsourcing. However, I am highly skeptical that the origin-obsessed Leicaphile is terribly interested in those details vs. the perceived prestige of a product made at the mother ship. You don't see a lot of comments along the line of "I am certain my X2 was completely made in Germany and your C Lux is from the Panny factory... Wage pressure in the Asian markets makes this a less econically feasible solution in the long term. HA HA!" It is more "My toy is more a real Leica than your toy" The panasonic Leicas are jointly designed by Panasonic and Leica and manufactured by Panasonic. They are designed for the mass market. The S, X and M series are all Leica made and designed only. Manufactured at Leica plants or contractors and are designed for Leicas target market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 22, 2014 Share #57 Posted March 22, 2014 The panasonic Leicas are jointly designed by Panasonic and Leica Really? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 22, 2014 Share #58 Posted March 22, 2014 Really? Leica certainly have input in the lens design. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted March 22, 2014 Share #59 Posted March 22, 2014 I can't understand this obsession as to where things are actually made. The items are what they are and either up to standard or they aren't. There seems to be a reliability problem with some of Leica's most expensive products that contributors on here are complaining about and returning that are made in Germany. There seems to be no evidence at all that the items are any better for having been made there. The geography is irrelevant, it's the skill of the people carrying out the assembly and the quality controls in place that's relevant, which quite clearly aren't that brilliant judging by complaints on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 23, 2014 Share #60 Posted March 23, 2014 I wonder how many Leica employees are of German heritage. What happens if an Asian assembles a camera in Germany? Does that make it better or worse? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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