90 - Portrait or Street Lens ?

[juju01]

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I have never been able to muster the courage to take a photo of a total stranger up close without their implicit permission. I have no problems asking, though. Also, I think the knowledge that their photo is being taken sometimes changes the scenery in a way that impacts the story.

 

What I'd like to have is a lens that allows me to get close without obvious intrusion. This is especially relevant in places where people are not used to getting their pictures taken.

 

Been looking at the 90 APO summicron - but I mostly get the impression it is more of a portrait lens - together with the 75 - than for what I intend.

 

What are the primary uses of the 90 for people who own it in this group ? Mostly for portraits or more towards what I intend, discrete street photography? I wish this forum had a polling feature to allow quick polling of questions like we can do on Facebook. Thxxx

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[Guest redge]

I make considerable use of 90mm - principally in "candid" situations - and it would be helpful to know what lens or lenses you are using now, and for what kinds of subject.

[juju01]

I make considerable use of 90mm - principally in "candid" situations - and it would be helpful to know what lens or lenses you are using now, and for what kinds of subject.

 

I currently have the 35 FLE and Zeiss 50 Planar. I use the 50 mostly for family portraits and the 35 for street photography and when I need a bit more context. I am guessing the 35 or the 50 will not give me the discrete captures I am looking for. ( I am using the M240 )

[Guest redge]

There's no question that you can put quite a bit more psychological distance between you and your subject by using a 90mm lens rather than 35mm or even 50mm.

 

And I think that the decision about how much psychological distance one wants is as much an aesthetic decision as it is a decision about comfort.

 

The downside is that a 90mm lens, handheld, requires a faster shutter speed for equivalent apparent sharpness. But this is really only an issue in low light, and the somewhat increased compression of the field of view is also an aesthetic issue.

 

While I use a 90mm Summicron-M f/2 extensively, I'm having trouble answering your question and apologize for the vagueness of the foregoing. In part, the problem is that I'm ignoring my strong favourable feelings about the lens, because it's irrelevant to your question, when deliberately used close to the subject, or from a distance when one doesn't have a choice (e.g. photographing from a NY subway platform to the platform on the other side of the tracks).

 

I'm thinking that it would be a good idea, if you can arrange it, to rent a 90mm lens for a couple of days and see how it works for you.

Edited March 10, 2014 by redge

[Tonki-M]

portrait, candid, and occasionally landscape.

[Dougg]

I have never been able to muster the courage to take a photo of a total stranger up close without their implicit permission. I have no problems asking, though. Also, I think the knowledge that their photo is being taken sometimes changes the scenery in a way that impacts the story. ...

I almost always get tacit permission/acceptance and often suggest they go on doing what they're doing, explaining that's what I'd like a pic of. That is generally found reasonable and reassuring...

 

As to the lenses, I do like to get in close with some environment but also find a 75mm surprisingly useful at times. Just for me, 90 is too long for almost every task.

[IWC Doppel]

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I do think 90 is too long, 75 is much better or a different approach with a 50, smile and look close enough to not be spying, but far enough away not to be intrusive, 50-75 is better for me.

[ehovv]

Rent a 90 first. I find it difficult to capture good images - you are forced to look ahead at the action and if it approaches you, it is too late. I would rather you use a 50mm and crop than be limited by a 90. But rent it out; your experience may vary

[elgenper]

I do think 90 is too long, 75 is much better or a different approach with a 50, smile and look close enough to not be spying, but far enough away not to be intrusive, 50-75 is better for me.

 

+1

[skinnfell]

Agree with you and the others, 90mm gets a bit more distance between you and the subject.

 

I will however ask you to consider two aspects:

 

1 - A 90mm is much harder to focus than say a 50mm at the same aperture. With a 50 you can slop around much more and get a decent image. This measn that even if you are standing farther away, if you take forever to focus it then people are going to be impatient or nervous or whatever. Even if you did ask for permission. So I would generally say that dont use anything longer than 50 for street, even if you stop people.

 

2 - The 90 apo is a considerably large lens for an M camera. Beautiful, sharp, precise. But also a beast to carry around all day. If street is your main concern I would also strongly consider the 90 summarit or even the teeny tiny 90/4 which also doubles as a macro lens.

 

I used to own the 90 Apo, as we speak a 90/4 is on the way… Keep in mind F4 will still give a nice background blur at portrait distance while being faster and more forgiving to focus.

[juju01]

Agree with you and the others, 90mm gets a bit more distance between you and the subject.

 

I will however ask you to consider two aspects:

 

1 - A 90mm is much harder to focus than say a 50mm at the same aperture. With a 50 you can slop around much more and get a decent image. This measn that even if you are standing farther away, if you take forever to focus it then people are going to be impatient or nervous or whatever. Even if you did ask for permission. So I would generally say that dont use anything longer than 50 for street, even if you stop people.

 

I have read of focusing problems with the 90 due to short focus throw and even more with the 75 summicron.

[JeTexas]

I use the 90mm Elmarit for business portraits and for sailboat regattas -- opposite ends of the spectrum, I guess.

[elgenper]

I have read of focusing problems with the 90 due to short focus throw and even more with the 75 summicron.

 

Practice…..

 

Personally, I find I focus much faster and better with my Summicron 75 than with my Summarit 90. I use it a lot for running, playful dogs, so I just have to be fast….

[thighslapper]

Had a 90/2 and dumped it.

 

Focussing accurately wide open with anything but very static targets is a lottery .... may be a bit easier with the M and focus peaking but I would never call this a candid street lens......

 

Nice as f2 might be, at this focal length the DOF is so shallow and the shutter speeds needed so much higher that I found it more of a nuisance than a usable lens. I now have a 2nd hand mint 90/2.8 for half the price and it does the same job and at 2.8 you stand a fighting chance of being in focus most of the time....

 

As mentioned above .... the 75/2 is less finicky, smaller an lighter and has many of its advantages and less of its problems....

 

..... or get a 135/3.4 and hide even further away ......

Edited March 10, 2014 by thighslapper

[LocalHero1953]

I go a bit counter-intuitive. I use the 90 for portraits, and also the 75. For street photography I prefer a shorter FL - usually a 35. I know it is difficult to get a candid close up with a wide angle, but I rarely want or try to do so.

I prefer the angle of view of a 35 when out and about: it shows much more context/environment - a 90 is too narrow for me.

I also find the 90 difficult to focus wide-open for portraits, but that's just the DoF - I don't have a problem with the focus throw. It makes it all worthwhile when you get it right though.

[Nick_S]

What are the primary uses of the 90 for people who own it in this group ? Mostly for portraits or more towards what I intend, discrete street photography?

I am finding the Macro Elmar 90 f4 lens useful for candid shots in places where it is awkward to get near. It is also nice and compact to carry around. I would suggest you might like to try one of these or the little 90 f2.8 Tele-Elmarit as a complement to a moderate wide angle lens.

 

Nick

[wda]

I currently have the 35 FLE and Zeiss 50 Planar. I use the 50 mostly for family portraits and the 35 for street photography and when I need a bit more context. I am guessing the 35 or the 50 will not give me the discrete captures I am looking for. ( I am using the M240 )

I use a 90mm for a variety of scenarios though less for street photography. As you already have a 50mm lens, why not spend time exploring the use of that lens in street photography and see if it approaches what you have in mind. I find a 50mm almost universal in applications and is excellent in street photography. Try that before committing yourself to a longer lens.

[Mr_Jones]

I have the 90/4 for travel/street, when you just can't get nearer the subject (on a river, etc.). It's a struggle in low light though. I had the 90/2 but it was way too heavy to cart around all day and a beast on the M, totally a portrait lens for me and mostly head shots at the distance I like to work.

 

I wouldn't use a 90 for street work otherwise, but it's personal taste. I think a 50 or 35 is better suited. I can't remember who is credited with the quote "If you're photos are no good, you're not close enough". Surprising how often it turns out to be true.

 

At the moment though my personal answer to every which lens question is 50mm Lux ASPH!

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[earleygallery]

I can't remember who is credited with the quote "If you're photos are no good, you're not close enough". Surprising how often it turns out to be true.

 

Robert Capa said "If you're pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough".

 

I think what he actually meant by that comment was about really more about knowing your subject, rather than being physically close up every time.

 

Consider how he worked as a war photographer - he lived with the soldiers, and ultimately died with them too.

 

Edit - I just found this on the FT website!

D-Day was a perfect meeting between man and moment. Capa could have chosen to shoot the invasion from a safe vantage-point. But his dictum was, “If your pictures aren’t good enough, you aren’t close enough”. It was a moral injunction, too: if you were going to photograph people dying, you had to share their danger. And so, he wrote in his book’s most celebrated passage: “The war correspondent has his stake – his life – in his own hands, and he can put it on this horse or on that horse, or he can put it back in his pocket at the very last minute. I am a gambler. I decided to go in with Company E in the first wave.” He ended up in the water with American troops at Omaha Beach, shooting 106 photographs while the Germans shot at him. He was wrongly reported killed that day.

Edited March 11, 2014 by earleygallery

[juju01]

Robert Capa said "If you're pictures aren't good enough, you're not close enough".

 

I think what he actually meant by that comment was about really more about knowing your subject, rather than being physically close up every time.

 

Consider how he worked as a war photographer - he lived with the soldiers, and ultimately died with them too.

 

Edit - I just found this on the FT website!

D-Day was a perfect meeting between man and moment. Capa could have chosen to shoot the invasion from a safe vantage-point. But his dictum was, “If your pictures aren’t good enough, you aren’t close enough”. It was a moral injunction, too: if you were going to photograph people dying, you had to share their danger. And so, he wrote in his book’s most celebrated passage: “The war correspondent has his stake – his life – in his own hands, and he can put it on this horse or on that horse, or he can put it back in his pocket at the very last minute. I am a gambler. I decided to go in with Company E in the first wave.” He ended up in the water with American troops at Omaha Beach, shooting 106 photographs while the Germans shot at him. He was wrongly reported killed that day.

 

@earleygallery - Thanks for that snippet. Amazing stuff. I can imagine that in a situation where I embedded in my subjects environment, a 35 or a 50 will just perfect. Reminds me of Damon Winter's picture here -