MM and colored filters

[dant]

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When you use yellow or red filters, does the MM react as well as when you use the same filters on a film camera?

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[swamiji]

That depends on the film.

 

This has been covered in other threads. Doing a search might get you what you seek.

[menos I M6]

Yes, it does.

[sm23221]

I'm not sure what you mean by "react". My experience though is that your wasting your images unless you use apochromatic lenses. Non-apo lenses with the MM will result in blurry images with the MM (especially with red filtration) while film has a lot more latitude.

[E_42]

I use orange filter - and yes it does (as to be exspected) what it should ...

[swamiji]

Non-apo lenses with the MM will result in blurry images with the MM (especially with red filtration) while film has a lot more latitude.

 

 

 

You just have accommodate the focus shift.

[250swb]

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When you use yellow or red filters, does the MM react as well as when you use the same filters on a film camera?

 

Pretty well the same yes, but as has been said just as some films respond more than others the MM seems (to me) to be in the mid range. I use a yellow filter a lot of the time, and sometimes a red.

 

And of course using the appropriate filter (I use a RG715) the MM is also good at infra red, for which you don't need posh Apo lenses either. Any lens will work if you do what photographers have always done and compensate for the wavelength shift (in practice with the lens stopped down and the camera on a tripod for the long IR exposure it is often only the immediate foreground or mid ground that needs care with focusing).

 

Steve

[jaapv]

I'm not sure what you mean by "react". My experience though is that your wasting your images unless you use apochromatic lenses. Non-apo lenses with the MM will result in blurry images with the MM (especially with red filtration) while film has a lot more latitude.

 

Actually, film does exactly the same regarding focus shift. I don't buy into this "film is more forgiving" stuff. Especially modern fine-grain thin layer films are capable of producing eye-watering sharpness.

The only difference is that film users don't blow up their images to insane proportions to judge them.

[A miller]

Pretty well the same yes, but as has been said just as some films respond more than others the MM seems (to me) to be in the mid range. I use a yellow filter a lot of the time, and sometimes a red.

 

And of course using the appropriate filter (I use a RG715) the MM is also good at infra red, for which you don't need posh Apo lenses either. Any lens will work if you do what photographers have always done and compensate for the wavelength shift (in practice with the lens stopped down and the camera on a tripod for the long IR exposure it is often only the immediate foreground or mid ground that needs care with focusing).

 

Steve

 

This is all very insightful. So would it then follow that, for street shots where I am shooting people in motion walking while using a modest f4 or so DOF, I can attribute a lack of sharpness in the foreground and shift in focus to a point usually behind the subject to the yellow filter I am using? Shutter speed is 1/125 which isn't the culprit. I take enough of these photos to know that I don't need to go back to focusing school. And I don't think the camera has a focus shift problem in general b/c if the subject is still I can usually nail the focus. It's primarily only the case in which I am trying to shoot a subject in motion that I am challenged. The lens used is the 35mm lux asph fle.

 

I'd be grateful for as much technical or untechnical insight on this.

[wattsy]

I can attribute a lack of sharpness in the foreground and shift in focus to a point usually behind the subject to the yellow filter I am using? …

 

It's primarily only the case in which I am trying to shoot a subject in motion that I am challenged. The lens used is the 35mm lux asph fle.

 

In my experience, a medium yellow filter like a 022 doesn't have a material effect on focussing.

 

It may be that if you are consistently obtaining misfocussing errors with moving subjects that the problem is more a timing issue. I also note your point about using 1/125. Unless I'm looking for a specific motion effect, I usually prefer a higher shutter speed if I'm photographing a subject that is moving.

[250swb]

This is all very insightful. .

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to be insightful about a yellow filter, there is no difference focusing with or without a yellow, or a red in general practice. But with an Infra Red filter there is a big focus shift due to the wavelength of the light, which is why old SLR lenses often had a reference point marked on them as a guide. I possibly shouldn't have confused the issue by mentioning IR, but just wanted to say that generally speaking the MM does respond to all traditional filters in the same way as a film camera would.

 

Steve

[A miller]

In my experience, a medium yellow filter like a 022 doesn't have a material effect on focussing.

 

It may be that if you are consistently obtaining misfocussing errors with moving subjects that the problem is more a timing issue. I also note your point about using 1/125. Unless I'm looking for a specific motion effect, I usually prefer a higher shutter speed if I'm photographing a subject that is moving.

 

Thanks, Steve, for the clarification.

 

Wattsy - I don't think timing is the issue b/c other moving people close by are in focus. This also explains why 1/125 isn't too slow as the people close by that are in focus are moving at the same speed.

 

Here's an example from yesterday with the medium yellow filter. I focused in the girl on the right with the bug hair. Instead, the women to her left was in sharp focus. Both moving the same speed. It may not be very obvious that the girl with the big hair isn't in sharp focus; I managed to improve the appearance of focus with the PP. But the woman to the left is in very sharp focus.

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[wattsy]

Wattsy - I don't think timing is the issue b/c other moving people close by are in focus. This also explains why 1/125 isn't too slow as the people close by that are in focus are moving at the same speed.

 

….. I focused in the girl on the right with the bug hair. Instead, the women to her left was in sharp focus. Both moving the same speed.

 

By timing, I'm not referring to motion blur but the time between when you think you have a particular subject in focus and when the shutter actually trips. There is your reaction time and shutter lag (time between when you press the shutter release and when the shutter trips) to consider. During that very brief period of time the subject you originally focussed on will have moved.

[A miller]

By timing, I'm not referring to motion blur but the time between when you think you have a particular subject in focus and when the shutter actually trips. There is your reaction time and shutter lag (time between when you press the shutter release and when the shutter trips) to consider. During that very brief period of time the subject you originally focussed on will have moved.

 

Thanks, Ian. I'm in 100% agreement with you. It's just that I'm usually not that slow to where the lag results in my subject leaving the zone of focus by the time the shutter does its thing. It is f4 with a 35mm, after all...

[menos I M6]

As Ian pointed out, the effect of mis-focussing due to a contrast filter is negligible with a yellow filter (I too use yellow filters a lot during daylight on most lenses with the Mono).

 

Even when occasionally using a 040 orange filter the effect is barely distracting (I use them mostly on lenses from 35mm and wider in very harsh light with bright sky and if caucasian skin is not an important subject matter and shoot f2.8 or smaller in such light anyway).

 

Where things tend to start getting serious is, when shooting orange filter and darker with fast apertures and long lenses.

From red filter and stronger you clearly have an effect, you have to compensate with stopping down and moving your focus. I rarely use any filter stronger than a 040 orange.

[dant]

Pretty well the same yes, but as has been said just as some films respond more than others the MM seems (to me) to be in the mid range. I use a yellow filter a lot of the time, and sometimes a red.

 

And of course using the appropriate filter (I use a RG715) the MM is also good at infra red, for which you don't need posh Apo lenses either. Any lens will work if you do what photographers have always done and compensate for the wavelength shift (in practice with the lens stopped down and the camera on a tripod for the long IR exposure it is often only the immediate foreground or mid ground that needs care with focusing).

 

Steve

 

 

Will the red give a black sky on the MM or not that pronounced?

[pico]

Will the red give a black sky on the MM or not that pronounced?

 

It depends upon the color of the sky. A white or bright overcast sky will not render darker. A clear, deep blue sky will become dark.

[250swb]

Will the red give a black sky on the MM or not that pronounced?

 

In the UK not black or very dark like Adams famous 'Half Dome' where he used a three stop Wratten 29, but it depends where your sky is in the world, altitude, time of year, and the direction you are facing. I would say a three stop red is more like a light orange in its effect. But get close and have the tones available in the file and a bit of post processing can sometimes make up some of the difference.

 

Steve

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[tobey bilek]

Girl was moving forward so she came out of focus and the other girl came in. or you missed focus or the camera does not focus properly. I would bet on #1.

[sm23221]

Actually, film does exactly the same regarding focus shift. I don't buy into this "film is more forgiving" stuff. Especially modern fine-grain thin layer films are capable of producing eye-watering sharpness.

The only difference is that film users don't blow up their images to insane proportions to judge them.

 

I was referring to the depth of focus in regards to focus shift:)