Leica S2: just 4 fun or professional?

[erlingmm]

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I mainly agree with the comments from albireo_double above. I would never go to Africa without the S2, when I have it. I actually took it to Tangier last summer.

 

My walking/travel kit is the 30mm and the 120mm, one lens on the camera, the other in a deep pocket of a wide jacket. I have managed to get sharp pictures down to 1/15 with the 30mm for static objects when I have good body support, but it requires some exercise.

 

And then there is the 30-90mm zoom of course, a good all-rounder

[menos I M6]

…However, you will forever be debating with yourself as to whether to take the M on a trip/assignment (compact, lightweight, can bring more lenses, incl. very wides) or a an S2 (carrying more than 2 lenses will break your back; you probably will not have very wide lenses at your disposal).

 

This is true for all mixed systems, where one has a mainly used 35mm system AND carries additional medium or large format gear.

I go out of my way here very simple and plan to use the heavier gear only for distinct purposes, rather than going the "carrying all lenses I own approach".

 

I carry maximum two lenses for the S2 total - this involves mainly the 70mm and a second lens for which purpose I anticipate on a trip.

 

I see the S system as the most compact medium format system with exchangeable lenses, so I always try to keep it compact (no battery grip, few lenses, …).

This is what allows me to use the exact same camera bag with a little more weight, I use also, when carrying two M bodies and lenses.

 

Other than that, the one thing that really is a big plus with the S2 is the accuracy of the AF system. OK, it is not fast, predictive or what not but the single focusing point is very accurate …

 

This is very true and probably one of the biggest strengths of the S bodies. It was one of the three things, that caught my attention about the S2, when I handled one the first time some years ago and wanted to give the system a try ever since. The other two are compact size and simple control layout much in the sense of Leica's other cameras.

 

Final thought - in my view, it is not worth it using the camera with non-AF lenses, via adapters that don't provide automatic diaphragm and exif data read-outs. Way too much hassle and you give up the super accurate AF.

 

This is a point I don't agree with.

First off you do not give up the S bodies focus accuracy abilities, as the focus indication in the viewfinder is fully supported with adapted lenses.

For when this focussing approach is not intuitive or fast enough, Leica provides a manual focus split prism screen, which I see as an essential accessory (even for people who would shoot just the 70 Summarit).

This screen completely changes your ability to manually focus precisely.

 

Regarding adapted lenses, I do agree to an extend, that it is probably not reasonable (other than economical reasons) to use adapted lenses in a focal length, where Leica offers a fully automatic S lens (one exception might be the Carl Zeiss 120/4 Macro lens, which unlike the Leica lens can focus down to 1:1 magnification without any additional gadgets).

 

A lens, I really found to love, which in operation means manual focus, manual aperture, stop down metering and no EXIF data, is the Mamiya 300/2.8 APO.

At one occasion, I actually lugged this lens on a S2 with accessories in parallel with an identical Nikon system + 300/2.8 AF-S VR + TCs to shoot them side by side from a monopod at a WEC race to find out which system performs how. The Mamiya 300/2.8 is one of the lenses, making up with full manual control is absolutely worth it.

 

In fact, the Leica S system is such in design that adapting almost any medium format lens to it (read: especially vintage lenses), that this is probably the most accessible MF system out there, making it very, very interesting. The reason for this is its very short sensor to mount register, resulting from it's smaller sensor, mirror and compact built.

The S is a digital solution for people who love a certain lens of a system, that ended up without a digital path. It is one of the S systems strengths by design!

 

I think, this was a brilliant decision by Leica not only benefitting in a more compact medium format system, but allowing so many interesting lenses to be used without much of the obstacles necessary, when doing so with other systems.

 

On the other hand, the fully integrated Hasselblad H and Contax 645 adapters provide full automation (AF, diaphragm) and full exif info and are the way to go if you wish to save some money or use some focal lengths that don't exist natively in the S system.

 

Very true - I love the Contax lenses. They are not only a less costly alternative in similar focal lengths but can also be an addition as of their different character.

Take for example the 80/2 Planar (which is more and more difficult to find for sale btw).

The mentioned 120 Apo-Makro Planar is another example which offers a different package than the Leica 120 and is worth considering.

The 210/4 Sonnar (or even the weaker 140/2.8 with 1.4 Mutar at a slight impact in image quality) is a fantastic (and still compact) extension of the S lens system.

The Carl Zeiss 1.4x Mutar itself is a very high quality tele converter (try it on the 210 !).

[stephan_w]

Hello

 

just stumbled over this post and may bring in my 2 cents (sorry I didn't read all comments).

 

Using the S2 with some lenses for more that two years now, and also using the Sony A7R with the 55 Zeiss for two months now, I would say that you get almost the same results with the Sony /55 as with the S2 with the 70 (the 70 is probable not the very best lens in the line up). Yes, this 55 is that good! Also, with the Sony you get some severe benefits, als eye focussing (works very well in good light), video (if you need it) and so on. And, more important, you can play around with your M-glas (which may be a bit disapointing sometimes when you compare it with the 55). All this in a small package. And I forgot the better ISO-performance.

 

You should also consider an eventual price for repair, as a used S2 is out of warranty today, and this can eventually make an important hole in your wallet.

 

This doesn't mean that I will bash the S2, just today in the 70 mm focal range you get more from Sony today than of the S2. The world has changed during the last 3 years.

 

On the other hand, if you consider to build up a complete system, with a top-notch makro and excelent wide angle lenses, then on the long run the investment in a S-system may make sense. But be ready to invest another 20 grands in updated cameras and adding some lenses later.

[Likaleica]

I keep going out with M(240) and S2 to shoot and compare but seem to always grab the S2. It is a phenomenal camera. Lenses are superb. I am biased to R cameras however.

[jip]

I'd like to have one for studio work, at the moment I'm working with the M Typ 240, which is great, and works... but I like it especially for architecture, and street stuff... not studio. Maybe I should look into a DEMO S2 or S/H S2 in the 4th quarter of this year (then there will be some money again...)

 

[tom0511]

I use M and S just for private/hobby.

 

In my experience the S beats the M in regards of IQ in various points:

1) resolution (not the most important for me)

2) color (quite important for me)

3) bokeh/rolloff

 

The S also has the advantage that it is weatherproof, has a huge viewfinder and a very accurate AF.

 

I often carry the S with 2 lenses in a backpack which is not that big, this way I can carry if easily for hikes over 2-3 hours.

 

The downside of the S are size (its not really a "spy-camera") and of course price.

 

So I enjoy it quite a bit to use the S.

[Dougg]

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Non-professional use here, with M and S2. The S2 has the battery grip for more secure hold for vertical shots, but with an empty battery compartment, no need. I very much like the big bright S viewfinder, and have no difficulty with accurate focus with the stock screen, auto or manual. This is a very comfortable camera to use IMO. As to size, I'm accustomed to packing a Pentax 67, so the Leica is certainly no harder to have at hand. I generally carry the camera "bare" over a shoulder with only one lens to keep things simple.

 

Doug

[AB007]

Photography is a hobby for me. I have been using various Leica R and M (film and Digital), Nikon (film and digital), Rolleiflex TLRs & 6008s and Mamiya 7II.

 

I considered various digital options for medium format and finally decided to get the S2 two years back with the 70/2.5. I added the 120/2.5 APO last year and last week got a great deal on a used 35/2.5 (excellent condition). I love the form factor of the S2. I enjoy using it.

 

I have to get a Metabone adapter for the Pentax67 lenses 55/4 (last version) and 300/4ED I got from eBay. No point spending more in getting the Leica adapter for Pentax 67.

[satijntje]

...if I read all these useful comments, I have to conclude that the fun factor with the S(2) is quite significant.....

This is very important to me.

Owned the X-Vario but it did not gave me the fun factor that I was looking for.

Difficult to describe this fun factor.... either I like the camera or not.

 

John

[LeicaS2]

If you are still needing thoughts on a a used S2.

Historically buying used Leica gear is always smarter than new. Leica lenses all initially depreciate and then stabilize. Sure a body will keep on dropping but buying a used lens is usually a good investment.

Yes the quality from an S in terms of resolution may be more than you need for the size prints you are making, but you still get a machine that is a pleasure to handle and view through. Looking through the viewfinder is a delight. Try it in comparison to any other DSLR you can find. If you like looking through a camera, you will enjoy photography much more. Then there is the pleasure that you have invested in a system that has no excuses other than cost. Rarely will you say to yourself, if only I had a better more expensive camera, I would be a better photographer. You have eliminated that excuse for all time!

 

For your eyes, AF is a huge plus over manual.

 

As for as weight, if I am going on a casual trip, as opposed to a professional photo trip, I still bring the S2, but with a single lens. Originally I only had the 35mm. Now I have several to choose from. But on a casual trip, I now just bring the zoom. But zooms are too new to be discounted used much, so wait for that. Anyway, I have had an easier time saying this lens is what will work, than saying I brought a lesser camera with many lenses.

 

So I say that yes, the S2 is a great casual camera, and you will enjoy having it, and using it.

[colonel]

...if I read all these useful comments, I have to conclude that the fun factor with the S(2) is quite significant.....

This is very important to me.

Owned the X-Vario but it did not gave me the fun factor that I was looking for.

Difficult to describe this fun factor.... either I like the camera or not.

 

John

 

John, in terms of waking this thread up, did you get the S eventually ? and if so findings ?

 

Did you consider the Pentax 645D and any thoughts here ?

 

I am also thinking along the same line, although I love the X-Vario and also use the Nikon Df with a wide range toys

 

The S is much more affordable now, and many used samples have been kept in mintish conditions and are available with dealer warranties.

 

It would interest me to use lenses, and some vintage, from other manufactures. I would probably only use 1 or 2 actual Leica S-lenses due to cost.

[Dougg]

Since the Pentax has been mentioned, I'll just add that in addition to four P67 cameras I have two Pentax 645NII and a handful of lenses. So the P645D would be a natural choice for me. And indeed I eagerly anticipated its release, and then was disappointed after the first reviews.

 

I have never found the 645NII to be as comfortable to use as the 67II... there's a different form-factor, and the Leica S is more akin to the big comfy P67 in shape and handling. I guess this relates to "fun factor" as the "form factor" is more enjoyable to use!

 

Also, I have a pair of Pentax dSLR cameras, and prefer the simpler Leica controls. The Pentax user interface, better than most though it may be, is not something I'd anticipate with pleasure on the more expensive medium format rig. Leica for me...

[sunil]

Interestingly I went through this process as no doubt many have done. I sold my M8 and lenses and bought an S2 about 2 years ago with a 70mm lens. My main purpose was to use it as an all round camera. After several overseas trips (to Spain and Iceland) and much use around San Francisco where I live, I concluded the following:

 

The S2 yields beautiful results handheld at high speeds. Much nicer than the M.

For much landscape work, a tripod is a necessity if the speed is below 1/125

The autofocus is brilliant. Having been a Leica user for 25 years, the autofocus is what I really and truly loved.

The weight of lugging the camera around finally got to me. My overseas trips convinced me that I hated the weight enough to sell the camera. Also, the 70mm lens was limiting. Had the 30-90 zoom been available, I might have kept the S (despite the weight) but Leica has made it impossible to get this lens and it is not worth the hassle of trying to acquire it.

I now have the M240 with three lenses, including the 50mm AA which is what I use 90% of the time. It is a joy to carry around and much better for travel photography.

 

The S is like a beautiful woman you would love to have an affair with but will not marry. The M240 is the lower resolution woman you do marry.

[AB007]

The S is like a beautiful woman you would love to have an affair with but will not marry. The M240 is the lower resolution woman you do marry.

 

My S2 is domesticated and stays at home. I carry my other cameras for travel

[sunil]

My S2 is domesticated and stays at home. I carry my other cameras for travel

 

Ah, yes, if only we could all afford a mistress and a wife.http://cdn.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[LeicaS2]

I have married the S2

I take her on travel, but as I said, I have the zoom for travel.

[Rolo]

I've owned an S2 for 18 months and use it for professional and personal use. I traded 2 M9s for it and have no regrets. The resolution and colour are far superior to the M9 and the files make for beautiful b&w images.

 

The body is fantastic. It's not heavy, nor too big to carry all day long. Battery life is amazing and two card slots provide a safe guarantee against faulty cards. I recently lost 500 images on an international trip, when I didn't have an SD card installed - never again ! AF is very accurate and the focus confirmation is very useful and works well. In portrait mode, the Grip substantially helps remove camera shake and with it I have little difficulty exposing sharp images at 1/45s if need be, making the limited iso range more acceptable. In landscape mode, I prefer to be at 1/180s or shorter.

 

The SF58 is brilliant adding just a puff of fill-light at speeds up to 1/4000s. I'm addicted to the body and love using it on the street, in the studio, or on wedding assignments. The lens/sensor quality is first class and the combination allows massive crops, if necessary.

 

The massive downside for me is the size of the lenses. The 70mm is just acceptable, the 35mm is ridiculously big. It's big because the lens bodies were designed to accommodate the CS shutter and that's a major compromise for those that don't want/own CS shutters. It's a real spoiler, for me, and has caused me to question my continuing ownership.

 

IMO, Leica should have included a small, lightweight lens in the original line-up to enable use of this body for travel and street use. Usually, 645 lenses are much smaller than the S lenses and at least one lens should be of that size. I've suggested to the S Team that they produce a 35/40mm Summicron, with or without AF, where the priority is minimum size and weight. Alternatively a pancake lens of any focal length.

 

This suggestion was well received as I pointed out that it would encourage the use of the camera by non-professionals, making the used market much more active and reducing depreciation on everybody's gear, thereby reducing cost of ownership. Leica only sell's M gear because the cost of ownership is low due the active used market, IMO.

 

I do have a V adapter and use 5 Hasselblad lenses on the S2. The image quality is still fantastic, but the V adapter is not as small as the others in the range and the weight and size of it erodes the weight advantages that the V lenses offer. Im not yet convinced that buying an alternative 645 lens set, say Contax, is the best way forward.

 

Gary

[Jeff S]

I have married the S2

I take her on travel, but as I said, I have the zoom for travel.

 

I bet she appreciates your zoom.

 

Jeff

[stephan_w]

there will not be any small lens for the S system, and certainly not a Summicron. What makes the lenses so big is the need of well corrected wide angle lenses. This needs a lot of lenses, and the format of the sensor need them to be of a decent diameter. If you want a compact system, this camera is definitvely not for you. What you can try are manual lenses with an adapter, but again then you will loose the outstanding quality of the S glass.

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[Rolo]

there will not be any small lens for the S system, and certainly not a Summicron. What makes the lenses so big is the need of well corrected wide angle lenses. This needs a lot of lenses, and the format of the sensor need them to be of a decent diameter. If you want a compact system, this camera is definitvely not for you. What you can try are manual lenses with an adapter, but again then you will loose the outstanding quality of the S glass.

 

Thank you Stephen, you sound well informed. I have conversed with the Head of the S System on this and have a response that tells me he will consider it. I'm presuming that you are not that man ?

 

What I'd really like is ONE compact lens and it wouldn't have to be SUPER DUPER quality and the focal length would be quite secondary. The benefit to me is that I wouldn't need to own a compact system at all, as the S2 would meet my every need. It would save me about £10,000 of other kit. I'd compromise on quality for the ability to be mobile and the quality would be better than the M system no matter which lens was used. Yes, I can buy an alternative make of 645 format and that probably is the best solution.