CheshireCat Posted January 15, 2014 Share #1 Posted January 15, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not entirely happy with my Elmarit-M: not sure about the colors (need more shots), and missing the extra stop and pop. Waiting for Peter to create a next gen FLE version with top performance MFD and improved APO correction (I've been spoiled by Zeiss APO Sonnar 135/2). Any comment is very welcome (e.g. "Get the current version because [rationale]"). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Hi CheshireCat, Take a look here Waiting for the 90 APO Summicron FLE. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted January 16, 2014 Share #2 Posted January 16, 2014 I would check if your 90/2.8 is calibrated for digital in the first place. Made a significant difference with mine. Otherwise my FLE lenses have lost the butter smooth focus action of pre-FLE ones to my disappointment so i prefer keeping my 90/2 apo as is for now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted January 16, 2014 Share #3 Posted January 16, 2014 My 90mm APO is great at 1m and infinity but useless between 3m and 5m at f/2 - f/4. I just bought a 75mm and it's a lot better - probably down to the floating element design. I intend to send the 90mm in for digital alignment, but I'm not sure how to ask them to optimize it - can f/2 at all distances be done ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 16, 2014 Share #4 Posted January 16, 2014 Otherwise my FLE lenses have lost the butter smooth focus action of pre-FLE ones to my disappointment ... Could be the issue identified by DAG (Don Goldberg in US) when he fixed my 50 Summilux-M ASPH by replacing the grease with 'new' old Leitz grease, which he keeps in supply. He commented that the grease Leica currently uses breaks down and creates problems like you describe. Leica NJ failed to solve the issue that DAG fixed easily….in fact better than new. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16, 2014 Share #5 Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Jeff thanks i would certainly consider it if Wisconsin was closer to me but ... Deliveries gone wild - YouTube Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 16, 2014 Share #6 Posted January 16, 2014 My 90mm APO is great at 1m and infinity but useless between 3m and 5m at f/2 - f/4. […] I intend to send the 90mm in for digital alignment, but I'm not sure how to ask them to optimize it - can f/2 at all distances be done ? It should be accurate at all distances normally as it has no focus shift problems AFAIK. My 6-bit sample works fine with the M240 but a magnifier or an EVF may certainly help at f/2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted January 16, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) My 90mm APO is great at 1m and infinity but useless between 3m and 5m at f/2 - f/4. What you mean by "useless" ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted January 16, 2014 I would check if your 90/2.8 is calibrated for digital in the first place. Tested at all distances, comparing rangefinder with zoomed Live View. Seems nicely calibrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 16, 2014 Share #9 Posted January 16, 2014 Hi Jeff thanks i would certainly consider it if Wisconsin was closer to me but ...Deliveries gone wild - YouTube I was hoping that there was another Don-type guy closer to you. Various members have posted good things about others. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted January 16, 2014 Share #10 Posted January 16, 2014 What you mean by "useless" ? It front focuses by about 50cm at 4m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted January 16, 2014 Share #11 Posted January 16, 2014 Must have dropped! When mine returned from coding it was - and still is - the VERY best of my + 10 lenses. Best GEORG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted January 17, 2014 It front focuses by about 50cm at 4m !! Definitely not normal. Did you buy it new or sh ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 17, 2014 Share #13 Posted January 17, 2014 !! Definitely not normal. Did you buy it new or sh ? I am very happy with the existing APO 90 Summicron and focussing is of course easier on the M240. It's difficult to believe there would be sufficient demand to justify a revised lens. It will be interesting to see where Leica go with M lens development, it's a pretty crowded catalogue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted January 17, 2014 Share #14 Posted January 17, 2014 !! Definitely not normal. Did you buy it new or sh ? I bought it used for £900 in 2008 - when the 90mm was rather unpopular for focusing issues on the M8. I used it mainly for landscapes, where it does a fine job, on my M6 It was only when I got a M9 two years ago that I noticed the mid distances were no good. I should sent it in for 6 bit coding and re-calibration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 17, 2014 Share #15 Posted January 17, 2014 ChesireCat, I think we are kidding ourselves to think that Leica or Herr Karbe will deliver an M-sized 90mm Summicron FLE that compares to the benchmark performance of the Zeiss 135mm F/2 APO Sonnar. Amongst other things, I think my Zeiss 135 is 6x the size of my 90 AA! But you make an interesting comparison, to me, because I think the two lenses draw similarly... just the Zeiss is at a higher level. That said, I find close focusing my 90 AA to b excellent. The lens is just wonderful, wide open, as we enjoy with the Zeiss 135 APO. If you believe you need FLE, perhaps your lens or body-to-lens calibration needs a check? Maybe shoot the 90 AA on a Sony A7R.... really great combination for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted January 17, 2014 gpwhite, this is very reassuring. By the way, I have no focusing issues with the Elmarit, and sharpness is very good. The problem is it lacks the crispness, colors and pop I get from Zeiss teles (including the 100 Makro, which is quite the opposite of APO !). This is why I am considering the 90 AA upgrade, but I've read posts from other users complaining about the 90 AA being not so good wide open at short distances. The lens was released in 1998, so I wonder if Leica would come up with a revised FLE version (like the younger Summicron 75) and perhaps "a bit more APO" for Photokina. Then again, the performance issue at short distance may actually be caused by incorrect RF calibration (which is critical with a 90 f/2), and proper tests should be performed using the M in Live View mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marc G. Posted January 17, 2014 Share #17 Posted January 17, 2014 I have heard about focusing issues with the 90 APO ASPH. On the contrary I never had focusing issues with neither my 90 Summarit which I sold for the Summicron, nor the Summicron. I don't know what you mean with "a bit more APO" but that doesn't make ANY sense to me. I do not know who stated it (Leica? Puts?) but I read that Leica's lenses which carry the APO designation are apochromatically corrected over the whole image area. Either that's bollocks or the statement "a bit more APO" is. It seems that both the 28 Summicron and the 90 Summicron APO get bad comments due to their age. Does anyone have complaints with the optical formula? I don't. Leica may as well surprise me but I don't think there is enough room for improvements regarding these 2 lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted January 17, 2014 I don't know what you mean with "a bit more APO" but that doesn't make ANY sense to me. APO means that 3 wavelenghts are correctly focused, but does not provide any information about which ones, nor about how well the other wavelenghts are focused. My "a bit more APO" could be interpreted as "superachromat" (4 wavelengths) , or as "lower error on the other wavelengths". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted January 17, 2014 Share #19 Posted January 17, 2014 gpwhite, this is very reassuring. By the way, I have no focusing issues with the Elmarit, and sharpness is very good. The problem is it lacks the crispness, colors and pop I get from Zeiss teles (including the 100 Makro, which is quite the opposite of APO !). This is why I am considering the 90 AA upgrade, but I've read posts from other users complaining about the 90 AA being not so good wide open at short distances. The lens was released in 1998, so I wonder if Leica would come up with a revised FLE version (like the younger Summicron 75) and perhaps "a bit more APO" for Photokina. Then again, the performance issue at short distance may actually be caused by incorrect RF calibration (which is critical with a 90 f/2), and proper tests should be performed using the M in Live View mode. I'm inclined to agree it is probably a RF calibration issue. I was going to send my 75/2 back to Solms .... until I decided to re-check my M's RF and adjusted it for the 75 ..... and found it works perfectly and had minimal changes on the focussing of less critical lenses. I bought, used and sold a 90/2 because I couldn't achieve consistent focus wide open and at closer distances .... and in retrospect I suspect it was a RF issue. These lenses really exagerrate RF miscalibration and often just need very small RF corrections to work perfectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 18, 2014 Share #20 Posted January 18, 2014 gpwhite, this is very reassuring. By the way, I have no focusing issues with the Elmarit, and sharpness is very good. The problem is it lacks the crispness, colors and pop I get from Zeiss teles (including the 100 Makro, which is quite the opposite of APO !). This is why I am considering the 90 AA upgrade, but I've read posts from other users complaining about the 90 AA being not so good wide open at short distances. The lens was released in 1998, so I wonder if Leica would come up with a revised FLE version (like the younger Summicron 75) and perhaps "a bit more APO" for Photokina. Then again, the performance issue at short distance may actually be caused by incorrect RF calibration (which is critical with a 90 f/2), and proper tests should be performed using the M in Live View mode. I have a few opinions here, based on my experience with just a few lenses (so others may well disagree). Whether it is only now obvious because of the demands of 24MP digital capture, or a loosening of production criteria when production stepped up in 2009, my results suggest that Leica's lens quality has been noticeably variable from piece to piece.... there are many active posts about this on the forum. This means it is as likely that you might have a lens assembly "defect" as a body-to-lens calibration issue. I purchased my 90 AA recently (s/n 4219xxx), and it is just perfect in all respects that I can evaluate. The Noct 0.95 I purchased two months earlier (s/n 4205xxx) has issues and should visit Wetzlar at some point. But, all of the above said for the sake of objectivity, my hunch is that shooters struggle with the tiny, tiny DOF of 90mm at f/2 at close focus, plus the ineffectiveness of the RF system for nailing that focus plane. A rough example would be to point to Thorsten's exceptionally beautiful portfolio of work posted with his Noct @ 0.95... note that his shooting distance is rarely minimum focus distance, and, of course, the images we see are cropped. [50mm f/0.95 at 1m is just a smidge less DOF than 90mm f/2 at 1m, and both lenses focus to 1m with the Noct being FLE.] My point is he is thoughtfully thickening up his "happy zone" of focus, yet retaining the unique character of f/0.95. The 90 AA you contemplate has extraordinary micro-contrast, nearly as good as the Zeiss 135 APO, so you can step back a touch and then crop without losing the life of the image. In any case, when focused properly (I now use A7R with 90 AA because I shoot it at f/2 or f/2.8), the Summicron is both excellent and unique rendering. To my taste, the 90 Elmarit vII I tried before the Summicron was nice, but no comparison in fine rendering or corner-to-corner sharpness at large apertures. Marc G., APO is not a standardized term. It just means that the lens has been formulated to reduce chromatic aberrations to some degree. The degree of correction varies from lens to lens even within manufacturer... the Leica 50 Summilux ASPH must have substantial APO correction (even though not so labeled) because its performance in terms of CA at f/1.4 is not far off the 50 Summicron ASPH APO at f/2. I think APO is currently used as marketing term, so one really needs to shoot the lens, wide open, to learn what degree of correction is really delivered. The 90 AA, in my experience, is extremely well corrected! Chesire Cat, just go out and buy a 90 AA now. Look for a serial number starting with 421xxxx, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.