luigi bertolotti Posted January 16, 2014 Share #21 Posted January 16, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Seems that Summicron 40 had no less than four fathers... all from Wetzlar (Marco Cavina is always a great source when one likes to deal with original designs - chemical of glass - patents etc... ) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/220166-summicron-m/?do=findComment&comment=2510767'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Hi luigi bertolotti, Take a look here Summicron M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted January 16, 2014 Share #22 Posted January 16, 2014 Hi again You are right... no name of any designer. Compendium do have the MTF curves though... You have those/interested in those? Stein Stein, I have the old online version of the Compendium with no diagrams, so I would be interested to see the MTF charts. Supposedly there is a problem with the shape of the RF cam, when used on M cameras but like many others, I have never noticed it. On checking with the M240, there is a tiny discrepancy at closer distances but well within the DOF. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 16, 2014 Share #23 Posted January 16, 2014 Well, indeed the "C" lenses are in the Wiki : see the section for "Compact and Mini cameras" which includes CL and its lenses (including the rare 40 2,8 and, correctly, not the 28 2,8 from Rokkor made for the Minolta CLE) Luigi, I am playing in this moment with a Rokkor 4/90 I just got (last issued with the R/F ramp adjusted for the M) If I believe what I had read about it is the only lens made by Leitz for an another company. BTW it is making very amazing pictures with the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 16, 2014 Share #24 Posted January 16, 2014 Luigi, I am playing in this moment with a Rokkor 4/90 I just got (last issued with the R/F ramp adjusted for the M) If I believe what I had read about it is the only lens made by Leitz for an another company. BTW it is making very amazing pictures with the M8. JC, I was told that unlike the Leica 90/4 Elmar-C, the glass on the Rokkor came from Minolta. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphlex Posted January 17, 2014 Share #25 Posted January 17, 2014 Leitz did not make the 90mm Rokkor designed for the CLE, but it did make the 90mm M-Rokkor (with ordinary 40.5mm filter thread) that was sold for the CL concurrently with the 90mm Elmar-C. The earlier 90mm M-Rokkor is engraved "Made by Leitz" in front and "Made in Germany" on the side; and in the US, it came with a warranty issued by E. Leitz NY. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2014 Share #26 Posted January 17, 2014 Leitz did not make the 90mm Rokkor designed for the CLE, but it did make the 90mm M-Rokkor (with ordinary 40.5mm filter thread) that was sold for the CL concurrently with the 90mm Elmar-C. The earlier 90mm M-Rokkor is engraved "Made by Leitz" in front and "Made in Germany" on the side; and in the US, it came with a warranty issued by E. Leitz NY. You mean that the Minolta Rokkor 90 for CLE hasn't the usual (for CL) 40,5mm filter/hood thread ? I didn't know... was like this also for the Rokkor 40 f2 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 17, 2014 Share #27 Posted January 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Some sources claim that the Rokkor 40mm/f2 is multi-coated and as a result is less prone to flare than the 40mm Summicron-C. Anyone know if this is true? My Summicron-C is much less prone to flare and veiling glare, since it had a thorough clean. It really was quite bad before but you still have to be a bit careful when using it wide open. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted January 17, 2014 Share #28 Posted January 17, 2014 The CLE Rokkor 90 (can be distinguished from the CL Rokkor 90 by serial no position on barrel vs. front ring in case of the CL lens) does have a 40.5 mm filter thread for sure. Mine appears to be multicoated, but I cannot speak for the 40 mm CLE Rokkor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graphlex Posted January 17, 2014 Share #29 Posted January 17, 2014 Luigi, I don't know about the threads for the CLE 90mm Rokkor. The M-Rokkor has standard 40.5mm threads, while the 90mm Elmar-C, I believe, has the same 39mm threads as the 40mm Summicron-C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 17, 2014 Share #30 Posted January 17, 2014 Some sources claim that the Rokkor 40mm/f2 is multi-coated and as a result is less prone to flare than the 40mm Summicron-C. Anyone know if this is true? ... Wilson, just from looking at my Rokkor 40mm/f2, I'd say it is multicoated, as it exhibits the purple/greenish/yellowish colors on the lens surfaces that are common to many multicoated lenses (whereas the Leitz lenses of that era had a consistent purple look). My lens is certainly not prone to flare, but neither is it flare-free. As I do not own a Summicron 40mm, I can't make any comparison. Both the CLE Rokkor 40 and the Rokkor 90 are really good performers though, and I use them regularly on various cameras. The Rokkor 90 may in fact be my most used 90mm lens. Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 17, 2014 Share #31 Posted January 17, 2014 Luigi, I don't know about the threads for the CLE 90mm Rokkor. The M-Rokkor has standard 40.5mm threads, while the 90mm Elmar-C, I believe, has the same 39mm threads as the 40mm Summicron-C. .....and a weird 39mm thread it is too. The industry standard is for 39mm filter threads to be 0.5mm pitch whereas the 40 Summicron-C is 39 x 0.75mm or in old Leica-Speak, Series 5.5. This is just being wilfully difficult, like making their 43mm filter threads 0.5mm pitch, while the rest of the world uses 0.75mm. BTW for anyone who needs one, Heavystar make a series 5.5 to e39 converter ring, which allows standard e39 filters and hoods to be used. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 17, 2014 Share #32 Posted January 17, 2014 Luigi, I don't know about the threads for the CLE 90mm Rokkor. The M-Rokkor has standard 40.5mm threads, while the 90mm Elmar-C, I believe, has the same 39mm threads as the 40mm Summicron-C. As Wilson wrote, it's indeed not a std. E39 thread like dozen of Leica (and other) lenses... on both 40 & 90 "C" from Wetzlar you use the thread to mount the rubber hood, and the hood's ring secures the series 5,5 fllters... I always thought that it was made to convince users that with a filter, hood is always better to be used... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 17, 2014 Share #33 Posted January 17, 2014 When I received the UV/IR filter in 40.5 from Haïda a lens front cover was included kind of the ones you pinch for opening + a little wire to attach to the camera lug nice attention... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted January 18, 2014 Share #34 Posted January 18, 2014 .....and a weird 39mm thread it is too. The industry standard is for 39mm filter threads to be 0.5mm pitch whereas the 40 Summicron-C is 39 x 0.75mm or in old Leica-Speak, Series 5.5. This is just being wilfully difficult, like making their 43mm filter threads 0.5mm pitch, while the rest of the world uses 0.75mm. BTW for anyone who needs one, Heavystar make a series 5.5 to e39 converter ring, which allows standard e39 filters and hoods to be used. Wilson Hi to all Could someone verify if I got it right about filter diameters and threads on the three 90mm 4,0 being discussed? My understanding is: 90 CLE Rokkor Ø 40,5mm & 0,5 thread (usual thread) 90 CL Rokkor Ø 40,5mm & 0,5 thread (usual thread) 90 Elmar-C Ø 39mm & 0,75 thread (unusual thread...) Thanks for all feedback! Regards, Stein Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 18, 2014 Share #35 Posted January 18, 2014 I have just had a long and interesting chat with Malcolm Taylor on the 40mm Summicron-C. When I tried to remove a stuck Series 5.5 to e39 ring, the whole optical cell and front aperture ring assembly rotated. Apparently in a poor bit of design (price cutting?), the whole optical cell is only held from rotating by the main retaining ring and there is no locating peg to stop it rotating into the wrong position in the outer body. This was the lens that Malcolm had just serviced for me and he says for various technical reasons, he does not like to over tighten the retaining ring and he did it in a warm, dry room. When I tried to remove the ring, the lens came from a very cold part of our house, so would have had a little thermal contraction compared with when the ring was tightened, just enough to allow the optical cell to rotate when I tried to remove the stuck ring. Malcolm has now put a thin coat of natural shellac varnish on the back of the optical cell tube and re-tightened while tacky, to stop it rotating the future. Shellac varnish is easy to release with gentle warming or dissolves in warm ethyl alcohol, compared with the much more permanent Loctite. So anyone who finds their optical cell has rotated on this lens and the aperture dot is not at the top of the lens, this is the reason. The repair and the modification to prevent it happening again is a quick and easy repair but of course, the lens’ focus must be checked afterwards. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted January 18, 2014 Share #36 Posted January 18, 2014 Hi to all Could someone verify if I got it right about filter diameters and threads on the three 90mm 4,0 being discussed? My understanding is: 90 CLE Rokkor Ø 40,5mm & 0,5 thread (usual thread) 90 CL Rokkor Ø 40,5mm & 0,5 thread (usual thread) 90 Elmar-C Ø 39mm & 0,75 thread (unusual thread...) Thanks for all feedback! Regards, Stein Hi again I probably made one mistake above... and give it yet another try to make a "summary"... please comment and correct as I am by no means sure...: Elmar-C 90 4,0; made by Leitz, odd 0,75mm thread, simple/steep c-cam Rokkor-M CL 90 4,0; made by Leitz, odd 0',75 thread, simple/steep c-cam Rokkor-M CLE 90 4,0; made by Minolta, regular 0,5mm thread, true m-cam, coated Correct ????????? Rokkor -M vs -C? The threads? ... Not sure about anythings, so please help out... so I do not unvoluntaringly spread misinformation! Thanks! Stein Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted January 18, 2014 Share #37 Posted January 18, 2014 Hi again I probably made one mistake above... and give it yet another try to make a "summary"... please comment and correct as I am by no means sure...: Elmar-C 90 4,0; made by Leitz, odd 0,75mm thread, simple/steep c-cam Rokkor-M CL 90 4,0; made by Leitz, odd 0',75 thread, simple/steep c-cam Rokkor-M CLE 90 4,0; made by Minolta, regular 0,5mm thread, true m-cam, coated Correct ????????? Rokkor -M vs -C? The threads? ... Not sure about anythings, so please help out... so I do not unvoluntaringly spread misinformation! Thanks! Stein Well, you had the threads correct in your first posting, me thinks. And the correct designation is M-Rokkor, not Rokkkor-M, for both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted February 5, 2014 Share #38 Posted February 5, 2014 Stein, I have the old online version of the Compendium with no diagrams, so I would be interested to see the MTF charts. Supposedly there is a problem with the shape of the RF cam, when used on M cameras but like many others, I have never noticed it. On checking with the M240, there is a tiny discrepancy at closer distances but well within the DOF. Wilson Hi again Does this work... Trying to insett the MTF curves for the two Leica 40ies... Better late than never... Except you orobably have these by now. Stein Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted February 5, 2014 Share #39 Posted February 5, 2014 Stein, I have the old online version of the Compendium with no diagrams, so I would be interested to see the MTF charts. Supposedly there is a problem with the shape of the RF cam, when used on M cameras but like many others, I have never noticed it. On checking with the M240, there is a tiny discrepancy at closer distances but well within the DOF. Wilson Hi again Now it should be enclosed... Barely readable, but hope you can "use" them. Regards, Stein Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/220166-summicron-m/?do=findComment&comment=2526152'>More sharing options...
Stein K S Posted February 6, 2014 Share #40 Posted February 6, 2014 Sorry if I posted picture upside down... jc: did you switch it... Just curious as the picture now definitely is upside down? PS: have not posted too many pictures, so still struggling... Regards, Stein Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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