pico Posted January 9, 2014 Share #61 Posted January 9, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) [...]Seriously though, this thread is bordering on being racist and I personally find it rather distasteful. Is it not more a case of Nationalism rather than racist? There is a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 Hi pico, Take a look here Leica Camera - Made in Portugal (NOT Germany). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 9, 2014 Share #62 Posted January 9, 2014 There seems to be a general acceptance that everyone who works at Leica is German. No one has yet raised the issue of say, a Japanese national assembling a Leica in Germany. Should each camera be engraved with the % of content from each country and 'assembled by ……(names and nationalities of the people involved) ? I think we should be told. Seriously though, this thread is bordering on being racist and I personally find it rather distasteful. There is a difference between a country and a race, James (fortunately;)) This thread is about countries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 9, 2014 Share #63 Posted January 9, 2014 Err yes thanks for that. I did say 'bordering'. It's not a giant leap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted January 9, 2014 Share #64 Posted January 9, 2014 In this age of global production it is impossible to produce complicated products without sourcing parts and subassemblies from all over the world.There are strict regulations for the label “made in Germany” Leica complies with them. They even go better than that by sourcing many key parts if not in Germany but within the EU. A few years ago my wife bought an Suzuki Alto “made in Japan”. Only when it started rusting it turned out that the car was mainly built in India from Chinese parts, with just a bit of final assembly in Japan… I was told that many diesel Mercedes C class sedans sold in Asia are made in India. Well come to think of the Chinese Volvo is designed and made in Sweden, the Indian Jag is designed and made in the UK and the Italian Chrysler is made in the US ... my Mac is made in China and "designed in California" which I understand wants to be separate country :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 9, 2014 Share #65 Posted January 9, 2014 my Mac is made in China and "designed in California" which I understand wants to be separate country :-) And I would vote to make it so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest redge Posted January 9, 2014 Share #66 Posted January 9, 2014 For those who have an interest in where Leica cameras and other products are made, I'd like to suggest that you do a Google search for the phrases "international trade" and "rules of origin". Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 9, 2014 Share #67 Posted January 9, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Seriously though, this thread is bordering on being racist and I personally find it rather distasteful. Only in your imagination, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonil Posted January 9, 2014 Share #68 Posted January 9, 2014 Only in your imagination, I think. Actually, to be technical, any form of stereotype is akin to discrimination - racist its not, hence why the carefully worded phrase "bordering" Doesn't mean that its racist or even suggesting it is - but the definition of a stereotype is definitely this thread and blanket statements or misconceptions without data about groups of people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 9, 2014 Share #69 Posted January 9, 2014 Aren't we taking ourselves too seriously? .Of course the labels like Made in England, etc were designed to differentiate the product from "lesser" producers. Likewise "Made in Italy" for shoes, "made in Sweden "for furniture, there is a long list. In the end it is just a marketing tool that can even backfire. For instance "made in Germany"was coined to differentiate from cheap Japanese products as they were perceived then. Now" Made in Japan" is at the same level as its German counterpart - except in Japan itself. Go figure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 9, 2014 Share #70 Posted January 9, 2014 Aren't we taking ourselves too seriously? I don't, and I don't think you do either, Jaap. Sadly though, it seems to be the way of the world at the moment for many to take offence (either directly or on behalf of someone else) at every opportunity. It has become increasingly wearisome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted January 9, 2014 Share #71 Posted January 9, 2014 I don't, and I don't think you do either, Jaap. Sadly though, it seems to be the way of the world at the moment for many to take offence (either directly or on behalf of someone else) at every opportunity. It has become increasingly wearisome. ...things are definitely changing for the better, Jaap - to my mind, these sort of irrational and prejudice-based sentiments have no place on any inclusive publicly-accessible forum. Apologies for any inconvenience you have had to endure, Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Branch Posted January 9, 2014 Share #72 Posted January 9, 2014 Aren't we taking ourselves too seriously? .Of course the labels like Made in England, etc were designed to differentiate the product from "lesser" producers. Likewise "Made in Italy" for shoes, "made in Sweden "for furniture, there is a long list. In the end it is just a marketing tool that can even backfire. For instance "made in Germany"was coined to differentiate from cheap Japanese products as they were perceived then. Now" Made in Japan" is at the same level as its German counterpart - except in Japan itself. Go figure. I am lucky to own a rare small, (approx. 6.5cm X 4.5cm), Tropical Mayer camera made sometime in the early1930s. It is beautifully constructed from Teak with gold plated brass fittings. The lens is a 75mm f/3 Trioplan. On the right hand side are two small screw holes where the "Made In Germany" plate was once fixed. I'm told by experts that almost all such plates were removed as to carry a product with such a clear indication of its German origin at that time in East Africa where it was originally sold was likely to cause difficulties. Everything else on the camera is in German. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larsv Posted January 9, 2014 Share #73 Posted January 9, 2014 What I can recall from reading laws and regulations on the subject, IIRC, the WTO / GATT regulated on the subject and applied several criteria. Among these were a percentage of the value (including development costs and where the last substantial transformation of the product took place). Subsequently, individual countries implemented laws further interpreting the rules. To the best of my knowledge, in many countries and for many product types it is an obligation to include the country of origin. Interpretation latitude, resulting from the local laws, provides room to manoeuvre and apply it to your benefit in the positioning of your product. I would care more about the quality and the circumstances under which the product was produced, rather than the simple statement of the country of origin. But that is just me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted January 9, 2014 Share #74 Posted January 9, 2014 .....I would care more about the quality and the circumstances under which the product was produced, rather than the simple statement of the country of origin. But that is just me. Couldn't agree more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 9, 2014 Share #75 Posted January 9, 2014 For instance "made in Germany"was coined to differentiate from cheap Japanese products as they were perceived then. Actually “Made in Germany” was coined by the British in an attempt to protect the British people from cheap, supposedly mediocre products imported from Germany (Merchandise Marks Act 1887). But yes, it did backfire eventually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted January 9, 2014 Share #76 Posted January 9, 2014 I would be curious to understand where Leica manufactures their supply chain process because that's what seems to be seriously broken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted January 9, 2014 Share #77 Posted January 9, 2014 Actually “Made in Germany” was coined by the British in an attempt to protect the British people from cheap, supposedly mediocre products imported from Germany (Merchandise Marks Act 1887). But yes, it did backfire eventually. I seem to recall that the country of origin labeling started in 1806 with Napoleon's Continental Blockade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 9, 2014 Share #78 Posted January 9, 2014 Aren't we taking ourselves too seriously? Regularly. Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 9, 2014 Share #79 Posted January 9, 2014 It's one of those claims that you'd think was an urban myth until you remember it is Italy.Italian ski resort lays bare tax evasion Italian tax authorities to raid summer resorts in crackdown In my left hand drive but British registered Porsche, I get pulled over regularly in Italy at Autostrada payment stations and asked for my documents to make sure I am not an Italian national trying to avoid tax. The problem is that the standard UK registration document says in bold letters “This document is not proof of ownership” so the Italian police ask again for the ownership documents. Luckily I have enough Italian to talk my way out of it, otherwise the police can impound your car. You could pick up second hand undeclared Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Maseratis in Italy last year at real bargain prices, as long as you paid cash. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted January 15, 2014 Share #80 Posted January 15, 2014 Maybe Leica should take the approach of Apple, who mark their products "Designed in California" and don't focus on the location of final assembly. Perhaps Apple should be more honest and change to: "Designed by engineers who just arrived in California from all over the world." This kind of labels in the 21st century are maybe ok on a wooden bowl, but on complex products are semantically false, and the law of any country should forbid false statements. These labels only serve the obscure marketing machine, and the most elegant solution for Leica would be to stop labeling at least camera bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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