HeinzX Posted December 24, 2013 Share #21 Posted December 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have no problems neither with the 18 mm SEM, nor with the Elmarit 28mm ASPH on the M 240. With the M 9 there were no problems too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 24, 2013 Posted December 24, 2013 Hi HeinzX, Take a look here LFI 1/2014 - Italian Flag Problem. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted December 24, 2013 Share #22 Posted December 24, 2013 Even with the latest FW, which offered some improvement in dealing with the Italian Flag Syndrome on my M, I still encounter it with my 35mm Summicron ASPH and 24mm Elmar ASPH. I apologize upfront if I am a bit of a purist, but to me, this problem should have been solved long ago by Leica, not through on-going post-processing. I also believe it varies from body to body and lens to lens, and I am sending my M and lenses in to see if Leica can make some adjustments. Leica did an excellent job via FW with corrections to the problem on the M9, so I would hope further tweaks with FW might improve on the situation, though again I realize it varies from camera to camera, etc. Honestly, if the next Leica rangefinder comes out and exhibits Italian Flag Syndrome, I will probably move on to some different camera line in the future. It is that big a deal to me. It has been solved-it is called the M7… All sensors struggle with short registered wides in some way, witness the A7 with its advanced sensor, for instance. I guess sensor technology is not there yet. Otoh I doubt it will be ever solved fully, as this is but a minuscule fraction of the market. Far easier to design a new lens. However, my Summicron 35 asph has no problems, so are you sure you are running recent firmware? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted December 24, 2013 Share #23 Posted December 24, 2013 For me 28 summicron asph on the M is a marriage made in heaven. Yes it vignettes but then it did on film as well. No Italian flag problem. It spends 95% of the time on the camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted December 24, 2013 Share #24 Posted December 24, 2013 It has been solved-it is called the M7… All sensors struggle with short registered wides in some way, witness the A7 with its advanced sensor, for instance. I guess sensor technology is not there yet. Otoh I doubt it will be ever solved fully, as this is but a minuscule fraction of the market. Far easier to design a new lens. However, my Summicron 35 asph has no problems, so are you sure you are running recent firmware? Hi Jaap, Yes, running the latest FW and did beta-testing as well. It seems to me that the alignment between lens and sensor is extremely critical when it comes to the Italian Flag Syndrome, and that could explain why one person's lens/M body combination shows no signs of IFS, while another person's does. It will be interesting to see if Leica can do anything to improve my situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 24, 2013 Share #25 Posted December 24, 2013 This morning's testshot from my Summicron 35 asph - My standard PP for DNG i.e. camera profile & exposure. No FF correction or gradients and fancy stuff. I do notice the normal vignetting and falloff to the corners and edges, but no colour shift. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218924-lfi-12014-italian-flag-problem/?do=findComment&comment=2494390'>More sharing options...
Rick Posted December 25, 2013 Share #26 Posted December 25, 2013 Shot my whole month long September vacation in Europe with mostly the excellent 28mm Summicron +M240 + new firmware, never noticed the Italian flag syndrome. Don't know what to say, I'm a very critical observer, but I just don't see it. I saw that article last week in LFI and I think that the issue is interesting to read about, but I don't see it as a real world issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted December 27, 2013 Share #27 Posted December 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I take back my post earlier. After a bit more use with the 21SEM I did notice some pics exhibit colour smearing. Its very mild and only gets annoying when you're recovering deep shadows near the corners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted December 27, 2013 Share #28 Posted December 27, 2013 This morning's testshot from my Summicron 35 asph - My standard PP for DNG i.e. camera profile & exposure. No FF correction or gradients and fancy stuff. I do notice the normal vignetting and falloff to the corners and edges, but no colour shift. Well, then do not calibrate your display, because colour shift is clearly visible in your example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted December 27, 2013 Share #29 Posted December 27, 2013 Well, then do not calibrate your display, because colour shift is clearly visible in your example. My monitor is calibrated and I don't see colour shift in his picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 27, 2013 Share #30 Posted December 27, 2013 Well, then do not calibrate your display, because colour shift is clearly visible in your example. Not on my Eizo calibrated last week…. I think you are confused by the light falloff this lens normally exhibits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 27, 2013 Share #31 Posted December 27, 2013 After a bit more use with the 21SEM I did notice some pics exhibit colour smearing. Does this mean a mere color cast, or the photos exibit a loss in sharpness in those areas too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted December 27, 2013 Share #32 Posted December 27, 2013 Does this mean a mere color cast, or the photos exibit a loss in sharpness in those areas too? There's a smidgen of green cast in the extreme edges but no resolution loss. The cast is stronger when recovering deep shadows, hope that helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted December 27, 2013 Share #33 Posted December 27, 2013 The cast is stronger when recovering deep shadows, hope that helps I guess it is even more pronounced due to the Camera's tendency to reveal more green when recovering the shadows. Leica M240 green shadows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
don daniel Posted December 27, 2013 Share #34 Posted December 27, 2013 Not on my Eizo calibrated last week…. I think you are confused by the light falloff this lens normally exhibits. I have checked this now in Adobe Lightroom and you can not only see, but also measure the colour shift. It is no neutral falloff. But I think it is no problem in real life anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted December 27, 2013 Share #35 Posted December 27, 2013 Well it's good to have that ability but a bit of a hassle isn't it and I wonder if it's smart enough to recognise you've taken the calibration shot after the real shot rather than before. You can hardly ask the subject of your street shot to hang on for a moment... Any thoughts on what to use as a diffuser? Hi Mark. Sorry my internet was down for several days. I don't think that the camera uses any part of that calibration shot (unlike a manual WB for example). This is just all in the developing. Maybe one of those commercially available white balance diffusers that fit on the lens would work for the calibration shot to be used in the developing? I broke (dropped) my M and am waiting for it to come home so I can't experiment at all. I haven't shot it with anything wider than my 35 in any case. I never saw any issues at all in practical use with my M9 and wides although I could identify the corrections readily with artificial testing (the beta firmware testing). I suspect that again the appearance of the effect will be very dependant on content, settings and conditions. I don't know about individual camera variations. One interesting aspect of that Adobe note is their comment: It is most often seen with mirrorless camera systems. Examples include medium format digital backs on technical cameras, and Micro Four-Thirds or Sony NEX cameras with third-party, non-retrofocus lenses. That both indicates that this is not unique to M digital cameras and means that it was worthwhile for Adobe to develop a fix (since it potentially affects many many enthusiast cameras). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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