Risked life and limb to get this shot and the $7000 piece of crap let me down again

[Surge]

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NDs are well known to require "black tape" (gaffers tape works) around the filter mount. My guess is it's not the lens mount, but the interface between the filter and the front of the lens...

The Lee big stopper comes with foam glued to its edges for just that reason..

In my experience...

Bob

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Right. As an engineer, there's no way it can be the lens mount. Leica has been making the M mount for how long?! I think they have figured out how to not let in light!!

 

Check the filter mount and inspect your M mount for damage from drops, etc.

 

And don't be so quick to blame the camera!

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[MarkP]

Here we go again :roll eyes:.

 

 

Surge, please do the experiment yourself as described earlier in this and other posts. Even a senior Leica Australia employee told me he had posted about this problem elsewhere some time ago.

 

We are just identifying and reporting a the problem which is fixed with a $1 black hair scrunch.

 

I have 3 digital M Leicas and numerous Leica & Zeiss lenses and have used and tested a number of lenses on all of these cameras and have been able to reproduce the problem both in bright sunlight with 10XND filters & long exposures and testing with a brought torch at the lens mount. I have not dropped or damaged any of them and the light leak artifact is reproducible and identical. Others have had the identical artifact.

 

I'm blaming the mount. End of story .

[Surge]

I'll keep posting this tillI go blue in the face.

 

It is NOT a light leak from around the filter. Do the experiment yourself with a powerful focused torch beam at the base of the lens mount (especially at about 2-3 o'clock and you will see that the light leak is from between the lens and mount, and from nowhere else - end of story!

 

So your particular M body and/or lens is defective. Get it fixed. What's the big deal?

 

My new D800E developed a sticking shutter blade after one week of use... Nothing is perfect. Stop whining.

[MarkP]

So your particular M body and/or lens is defective. Get it fixed. What's the big deal?

 

My new D800E developed a sticking shutter blade after one week of use... Nothing is perfect. Stop whining.

 

What is wrong with you?

 

I don't expect my Leicas to be bloody perfect!

I'm not whining but I've just got the shits with your uninformed comments because you clearly have not read or understood what has been posted in this thread.

 

Again, this occurs across all THREE of my M cameras and numerous lenses (not just the heavy Noctilux), as well as that of others including the OP with long exposures in direct sunlight (which really only occurs with 10xND filtration). It is a highly reproducible pattern on the image so is not due to random damage or leaks from elsewhere.

 

I've specifically discussed this with someone senior in Leica Australia who recognized and described it before we did here in this Forum

 

It is a design fault which I just work around and don't whine about - but it is useful to know what it is due to and how to deal with it.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Right. As an engineer, there's no way it can be the lens mount. Leica has been making the M mount for how long?! I think they have figured out how to not let in light!!

 

Check the filter mount and inspect your M mount for damage from drops, etc.

 

And don't be so quick to blame the camera!

sorry pal but you have no idea what you are talking about:eek:

[kdriceman]

Right. As an engineer, there's no way it can be the lens mount. Leica has been making the M mount for how long?! I think they have figured out how to not let in light!!

 

 

 

Check the filter mount and inspect your M mount for damage from drops, etc.

 

 

 

And don't be so quick to blame the camera!

 

 

As an engineer - it IS the lens mount. This particular problem has a consistent signature which has been demonstrated to be a light leak; it affects many, if not all M digital cameras; it is well known and it's cause has been documented and presented on this forum by myself, Mark P and others.

 

We aren't "quick to blame the camera" as we- at least myself tried to blame everything but the camera until I went through a series of experiments that slowly eliminated all the other potential causes.

 

I have had 3 digital M cameras - an M9, an MMono, an M240. They all exhibit this (particular symptom) when - and only when- there is a long exposure with light beating down on the lens mount. It doesn't happen when the mount is light sealed using tape or a hair band, or anything else.

 

At any rate there is plenty of objective and documented support for this conclusion on this forum and I think there are links posted in this thread which will show you the evidence. So, maybe take your "engineer" hat off for a moment, put on your middle school science project hat and do a search.

[jaapv]

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And film M cameras - although they were not used this way very often due to reciprocity failure.

[Surge]

A quick Google search reveals similar light leak issues with Nikon and Canon DSLRs as well. (And whether it leaks from the viewfinder or lens mount, does it matter?).

 

So again, I don't really see your point? Are you saying that in over 50 years of the M mount, you're the first to discover this issue?

Or perhaps you are using the camera in a way that it, and most other cameras, were not designed for?

 

I also hesitate to believe your "test" that somehow proves it's not the filter. If you can test without adding anything to the lens, then let me know what the test is and we can all try it.

[wattsy]

And whether it leaks from the viewfinder or lens mount, does it matter?

 

It matters if you want to understand what is causing the problem so that you can take the simple precaution of sticking a scrunchie around the lens mount when making a long exposure in bright ambient conditions.

[kdriceman]

A quick Google search reveals similar light leak issues with Nikon and Canon DSLRs as well. (And whether it leaks from the viewfinder or lens mount, does it matter?).

 

 

 

So again, I don't really see your point? Are you saying that in over 50 years of the M mount, you're the first to discover this issue?

 

Or perhaps you are using the camera in a way that it, and most other cameras, were not designed for?

 

 

 

I also hesitate to believe your "test" that somehow proves it's not the filter. If you can test without adding anything to the lens, then let me know what the test is and we can all try it.

 

 

Yeah, my Pentax K1000 has light leaks also, but that... as well Canon and Nikon light leaks are irrelevant to this discussion. Thanks for the valuable input.

 

We are undoubtedly not the first to discover this, but none of us suggested that. However, some of us recently worked to determine for ourselves what causes this, shared our findings with this forum, got agreement based on our methodology that light leaks through the flange and it is noticeable on the sensor under some conditions - specifically long exposures with light shining on the flange, and this is what it looks like.

 

A filter leak was eliminated as the cause of this light leak as it can be replicated without using a filter (in fact it can be replicated by completely sealing the front of the lens)... and reported/discussed on the LUF. So, believe what you will, but uninformed blabber and googling Canon and Nikon light leaks isn't going to sway anybody into thinking this particular light leak was caused by a filter leak.

 

It's a flange leak. That's all. It doesn't really affect what I think about the camera or Leica or anything else. It does, however, affect how I set up my system if I want to take a long exposure in sunlight though.

 

You could save yourself and the rest of us some time by either moving on or by taking the time to read what others have learned and posted in the forum about this M characteristic thereby giving you some information that might help to add informed input to the thread.

[PeterP]

A quick Google search reveals similar light leak issues with Nikon and Canon DSLRs as well. (And whether it leaks from the viewfinder or lens mount, does it matter?).

 

Yes it does matter! The optical systems are completely different.

[MarkP]

I also hesitate to believe your "test" that somehow proves it's not the filter. If you can test without adding anything to the lens, then let me know what the test is and we can all try it.

 

 

Either test it yourself (you are apparently an engineer so design your own expreiment ),

 

or read post #7 in this thread,

 

or read post #22 and others here

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/300680-monochrom-long-exposure-issue-2.html

 

 

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

 

It's a flange leak. That's all. It doesn't really affect what I think about the camera or Leica or anything else. It does, however, affect how I set up my system if I want to take a long exposure in sunlight though.

 

+1

[AlanG]

A quick Google search reveals similar light leak issues with Nikon and Canon DSLRs as well. (And whether it leaks from the viewfinder or lens mount, does it matter?).

 

So again, I don't really see your point? Are you saying that in over 50 years of the M mount, you're the first to discover this issue?

Or perhaps you are using the camera in a way that it, and most other cameras, were not designed for?

 

I also hesitate to believe your "test" that somehow proves it's not the filter. If you can test without adding anything to the lens, then let me know what the test is and we can all try it.

 

Your posts make me curious what kind of engineering work you do. I am not an engineer but have to wonder if you considered doing any testing on this?

 

It is pretty easy to stop the lens down all the way, put an ND filter and lens cap on the lens to make sure light is not coming through the glass, and then aim a bright light into only the lens mount area in order to show a light leak at that particular location.

[Surge]

Your posts make me curious what kind of engineering work you do. I am not an engineer but have to wonder if you considered doing any testing on this?

 

It is pretty easy to stop the lens down all the way, put an ND filter and lens cap on the lens to make sure light is not coming through the glass, and then aim a bright light into only the lens mount area in order to show a light leak at that particular location.

 

Wait so you're saying that this method of testing is definitive?! Stopping a lens down with an ND filter and a lens cap is "SURE" to block all incoming light?! Oh wait, you're shining the light into only the lens mount area. Hmm...unless it's a laser and you can guarantee no reflected light, how can you prove light is not entering through the lens front?

The lens cap was never designed to block 100% of incoming light.

 

Not trying to be negative, but I really don't see how this "test" proves that light is leaking through the mount.

 

I think the issues are:

1) is this really a light leak at the mount?

2) if 1 is true, and I have yet to be convinced, then is it a flaw or was the camera simply not designed for this type of photography (enter examples of DLSRS (yes, I know it's a different design from a rangefinder, that's not really the point -- intended use for these cameras is probably the same)

3) if a flaw, is it only with some Ms or all?

 

But until you can prove 1, the whole thread is pointless.

I'm amazed at how quick people are lead to believe it "must" be a mount leak, because they've "tested" it.

[250swb]

Tell us what you 'engineer', so we can avoid it............

 

Was it the Titanic?

 

 

Steve

[jdsheepdog]

Tell us what you 'engineer', so we can avoid it............

 

Was it the Titanic?

 

Steve

As yet another engineer, and yes, one of the kind that does design ships, I can assure you that being an engineer has bugger all to do with it, as if an iron ring imbues omniscience in all things. Not sure if is snobbery, or arrogance, or vanity that inspires engineers to use their profession as authority in things beyond what they really know about.

 

On the subject under discussion, I would trust a photographer long before an engineer.

 

As to the calumnies of Leica in not declaring to the world the total incompetence of the designers, probably long dead, of their lens mount, first seen on the M1, and then falling on their swords, I could not give a damn. A scrunchie is a perfectly valid solution.

 

Leica's only folly is not recognising it as such, and embroidering scrunchies with red dots and logos, and selling them at very high prices, as ND filter accessories. Sssh, it may happen! If they did that, we would all have bought one, and the thread would not even exist.

 

"Houston, we have a problem." I recall that was fixed with duct tape and other odds and sods, and no one wanted NASA's head on a plate. They were just pleased, very, that they could make it work. I have seen an awful lot of equipment, with a pedigree and a price at least as impressive as Leicas' that needed the odd bit of haywire to make it work.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Wait so you're saying that this method of testing is definitive?! Stopping a lens down with an ND filter and a lens cap is "SURE" to block all incoming light?! Oh wait, you're shining the light into only the lens mount area. Hmm...unless it's a laser and you can guarantee no reflected light, how can you prove light is not entering through the lens front?

The lens cap was never designed to block 100% of incoming light.

 

Not trying to be negative, but I really don't see how this "test" proves that light is leaking through the mount.

 

I think the issues are:

1) is this really a light leak at the mount?

2) if 1 is true, and I have yet to be convinced, then is it a flaw or was the camera simply not designed for this type of photography (enter examples of DLSRS (yes, I know it's a different design from a rangefinder, that's not really the point -- intended use for these cameras is probably the same)

3) if a flaw, is it only with some Ms or all?

 

But until you can prove 1, the whole thread is pointless.

I'm amazed at how quick people are lead to believe it "must" be a mount leak, because they've "tested" it.

Excuse me sir but like I said earlier quote: you have no idea what you are talking about, you are just in this thread for an argument

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jdsheepdog]

Excuse me sir but like I said earlier quote: you have no idea what you are talking about, you are just in this thread for an argument

 

That's not an argument, that's contradiction.

No it's not.

Yes it is ...........

 

Monty Python: The Argument Sketch

[250swb]

 

I think the issues are:

1) is this really a light leak at the mount?

2) if 1 is true, and I have yet to be convinced, then is it a flaw or was the camera simply not designed for this type of photography (enter examples of DLSRS (yes, I know it's a different design from a rangefinder, that's not really the point -- intended use for these cameras is probably the same)

3) if a flaw, is it only with some Ms or all?

 

But until you can prove 1, the whole thread is pointless.

 

To paraphrase

 

"I think the issues are:

1) is this really water leaking into the ship

2) if 1 is true, and I have to be convinced, then is it a flaw or was the ship really not designed to hit an iceberg at full speed

3)if a flaw, it is only some ships or all?

 

But until you can prove 1, the whole thread is pointless"

 

Surge, I think you are building yourself a hubristic 'unsinkable ship' as I don't believe you have followed the thread in detail. Here to reiterate is a link to an earlier thread on the same subject in which many photographers declared experiencing the same problem independently of recognising the cause.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/300680-monochrom-long-exposure-issue.html

 

For each to have experienced the problem it would be a massive coincidence that they were using the same lens, the same filter, the same camera type (it occurs across many), under the same lighting conditions, and to have the same identifiable artefact appear in the picture. The common denominator was the length of the exposure and testing began from there. So this is not isolated, it is not flare from filters or through the lens, it is not a reflection through the lens (although the leak itself may create an internal reflection), and as you overlooked Jaap's comment, it also happens with Leica film cameras and maybe always has.

 

Steve