Universalb50 Posted December 7, 2014 Share #741 Posted December 7, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Could this issues send Leica out of business? If not, could it seriously slow down further M lens and camera development? Has anybody idea how many M9 type CCD sensor users are there? ...sad to say, yes...the 21th century equivalent of the Voightlander Prominent or Zeiss Contarex Bulleye...they also were such wonderful cameras in there time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 7, 2014 Posted December 7, 2014 Hi Universalb50, Take a look here Strange white spots on M9 sensor?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted December 7, 2014 Share #742 Posted December 7, 2014 I appreciate Paul's (pgk) sometimes contrairian points of view and welcome them. I don't agree with him on this issue. However, in a discussion like this contrarian points of view help everybody to clean up their rational, thoughts, and statements. All good, as far as I am concerned. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2014 Share #743 Posted December 7, 2014 Maybe, but I didn't appreciate his accusing people here of "whining". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 7, 2014 Share #744 Posted December 7, 2014 Well I have been 'out taking pictures' this morning with my M9 and M7. I have no choice, so far, but to use the camera (M9) and enjoy it while I can. Crying into my beer will only dilute the beer! However, I am NOT happy about the situation and do expect an acceptable resolution, along with others on this forum and elsewhere. I have found in the past, impatience achieves little or nothing, whereas persistence and courtesy can deliver results. Of course, there are other successful methods as well, such as legal action, which can be costly, for someone. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 7, 2014 Share #745 Posted December 7, 2014 Maybe, but I didn't appreciate his accusing people here of "whining". Of course not, neither do I. Trying to denigrate other folks is always a sign of weakness in a discussion. But we are all human and make mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 7, 2014 Share #746 Posted December 7, 2014 Maybe, but I didn't appreciate his accusing people here of "whining". Just did a quick flick backwards. Couldn't see any evidence of whining (from PGK). Maybe I missed it. Otherwise, let's stick to the core issue and try to avoid speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2014 Share #747 Posted December 7, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Come now erl — I didn't make it up: it's in post #634, although misspelled as "wining" instead of "whining". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted December 7, 2014 Share #748 Posted December 7, 2014 Come now erl — I didn't make it up: it's in post #634, although misspelled as "wining" instead of "whining". Correct, you beat me to it. Thanks. Quote:"wining and whinging". Paul also has a few other choice words in later posts. Anyway, erl, what to do in the absence of solid information from Leica. Speculation can actually be helpful. my 2 cents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted December 7, 2014 Share #749 Posted December 7, 2014 ...sad to say, yes...the 21th century equivalent of the Voightlander Prominent or Zeiss Contarex Bulleye...they also were such wonderful cameras in there time... That's why I said get the eggs but don't kill the chicken. This issue can potentially be the end of Leica or cause very serious damage to the company. I would like to see a fair resolution that makes the clients happy and be painful enough on Leica but without causing lasting or irreversible damage. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 7, 2014 Share #750 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Come now erl — I didn't make it up: it's in post #634, although misspelled as "wining" instead of "whining". Sorry Mitch but I just don't get a kick out of digging back more than 100 posts as a rule, or ever. PGK was not whinging and whining, IMO, he was referring to others, who apparently have or do. I have little or less interest in such protracted personal opinions and even less interest in speculation and/or plain uninformed comment. Edited December 7, 2014 by erl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 7, 2014 Share #751 Posted December 7, 2014 Correct, you beat me to it. Thanks. Quote:"wining and whinging".Paul also has a few other choice words in later posts. Anyway, erl, what to do in the absence of solid information from Leica. Speculation can actually be helpful. my 2 cents. Speculation IMO is a very dangerous thing. In the absence of solid information I would venture that something along the lines of the open letter(s) both put and proposed on this and reportedly on other fora will serve more good, maybe. IMO speculation would more likely start a bushfire, when everyone gets burned. OTOH, I could be wrong. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalHeMan Posted December 7, 2014 Share #752 Posted December 7, 2014 Yes, considering the threat of taking collective action through a consumer association, not to speak of sending individual letters or emails as opposed to clicking a "thanks" button. I certainly think that the French approach would be much more effective than the LUF approach of thanking a post. I have already added my thanks, however I did find the letter a little bit lacking in a real 'threat'. It could definitely be interesting for a small group of members to work on perfecting a version of the letter outside of these forum posts, and then making that available to all members, along with the email of relevant Leica management, to send in their direction so that Leica can get an idea of the public opinion, and maybe force them to a reaction. Would be happy to work on something like that with a couple of others if there is interest..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2014 Share #753 Posted December 7, 2014 ...PGK was not whinging and whining, IMO, he was referring to others, who apparently have or do...Huh? That was the whole point of my saying in post #743 that I didn't appreciate pgk accusing people here of "whining". Not sure why you're reversing that on to me, considering that the four people who thanked me understood my (clear) statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2014 Share #754 Posted December 7, 2014 I certainly think that the French approach would be much more effective than the LUF approach of thanking a post. I have already added my thanks, however I did find the letter a little bit lacking in a real 'threat'...Yes, certainly; but the French letter is to threaten a class action suit by a consumer association. I assume that can only be done by signers in one country, not internationally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 7, 2014 Share #755 Posted December 7, 2014 Huh? That was the whole point of my saying in post #743 that I didn't appreciate pgk accusing people here of "whining". Not sure why you're reversing that on to me, considering that the four people who thanked me understood my (clear) statement. Umm..I thought this thread was about our concern for Leica and the handling of this problem. Catching out other members on their words is not very constructive in that context, nor are ruffled feathers... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2014 Share #756 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) Umm..I thought this thread was about our concern for Leica and the handling of this problem. Catching out other members on their words is not very constructive in that context, nor are ruffled feathers... Maybe you'd better address that to erl, because that is what he seemed to be doing to me. Or, if you will, address it to pgk. Edited December 7, 2014 by not_a_hero Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 7, 2014 Share #757 Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) I address it to anybody who loses focus on this thread. I agree 100% with Erl: I have little or less interest in such protracted personal opinions and even less interest in speculation and/or plain uniformed comment. Edited December 7, 2014 by jaapv 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted December 7, 2014 Share #758 Posted December 7, 2014 and even less interest in speculation and/or plain uniformed comment. Regrettably in the absence of any definitive official ( we have had unofficial statements posted on forums before which have been retracted, as have official ones (M8 upgradable forever) all we have is uninformed comment and speculation. Not even a poll: M9 affected now, M9 not affected currently, M9previously affected fixed, M9 waiting at repair facility or fix. The numbers may be more telling than thanks. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 7, 2014 Share #759 Posted December 7, 2014 Huh? That was the whole point of my saying in post #743 that I didn't appreciate pgk accusing people here of "whining". Not sure why you're reversing that on to me, considering that the four people who thanked me understood my (clear) statement. Mitch, try and get a grip on the real issue. As in your past persona, you seem to still be hell bent on 'twisting tongues' with members and distracting from real issues. Trawling through past comments, I mean really past comments by members to make some theoretical point scoring is plain BS. Give it a break man. Concentrate on sorting out Leica's problem, if you can, not issues with members here. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted December 7, 2014 Share #760 Posted December 7, 2014 I doubt more letters are going to have any effect. Leica management are already listening. Whether they respond is a different matter. Some, both here and in the French forum, are considering a consumer association lawsuit. Similarly, one could meekly await a recall, etc. Surely this will require patience: my own feeling is that Leica will most likely be locking itself up inside its legal bunker right now, and will resist from there as best it can for the next several months. Resolution to its customers will neither be friendly, nor quick. Further informal posts in this Forum on this matter by Leica would very much surprise me. So would a public announcement on their website or by email. They have probably said more already than it was legally prudent for them to do. Thus, if anyone has lost patience and wants to take things further, more words will have little effect. The next step is to pack and send your camera to: Garantiereparatur - Retoure Leica Camera AG, CS Warenannahme Am Leitz Park 5 35578 Wetzlar Germany (A letter of complaint may of course be included with your camera.) Once your camera is at Wetzlar, your chances of receiving a response are certain. And after Leica have laid out YOUR options, YOU may then carefully consider your own response. This is how I have proceeded, at the risk of appearing a "difficult customer". My own camera is affected by corrosion, but I would consider doing the same even if it were not. Make it their problem: I feel it is more than warranted given the situation. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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