jaapv Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share #141 Posted November 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would think Leica marketing and engineering should be reading this forum. They do -carefully. And there are good connections between a number of forum members and senior Leica employees. Don’t worry, this forum has the ear of Leica. It would be extremely stupid not to use this resource. About answering on the forum by the secretary of the CEO, it has drawbacks as well, as it opens up the opportunity of heckling that is rife on internet forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Confirming the temperature problem.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted November 8, 2013 Share #142 Posted November 8, 2013 As camera makers, Leica have never been at the cutting edge of innovation as far as i recall since the M3 or the M5 perhaps and we could suspect that the M240 is a better rangefinder than a mirrorless camera since the first Sean Read's review more than one year ago, so there is no real surprise here to be honest. Not a reason to accept hangs and lockups of course but photogs expecting to use LV/EVF intensively w/o any problem seem somewhat inclined to indulge in wishful thinking IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share #143 Posted November 8, 2013 Not even the M3. The innovation there was the combination of existing rangefinder/viewfinder technology with a bayonet mount, which was not a new idea either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2013 Share #144 Posted November 8, 2013 Twelve unique features Leitz said. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/215855-confirming-the-temperature-problem/?do=findComment&comment=2460770'>More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 8, 2013 Share #145 Posted November 8, 2013 Not a reason to accept hangs and lockups of course but photogs expecting to use LV/EVF intensively w/o any problem seem somewhat inclined to indulge in wishful thinking IMHO. lct Wishful thinking! At the time of buying the M on 3/1/13 how was I to know while using the EVF with precious R lenses that it would lockup and require in worst case scenarios battery removal while on tripod with the sun continually moving after getting up at 3-4am in order to get that great sunrise or to get that right moment during a sunset. All this while flying thousands of miles to get to the location where the schedule might have been such that this sunrise is the only time you will be at this exact location. There was no wishful thinking-I used it as advertised. Why shouldn't it work? My first all day outings with the M were back in April in the Florida keys where the weather had not heated up too much during the days. Even though I noticed the heat of the body higher than on my M9P, I never gave thought what would come to pass. I wonder if the thermal device/sensor in the camera can take just so many heat cycles before it acts up more severely and cuts off the camera? In May out West in the US I began to get my first lockups as the temps were beginning to get much higher even in the higher altitudes of the Eastern Sierras. By the time early June rolled around we decided to spend a long day at Death Valley and the lockups began to irritate me since the shots I wanted required using the APO 70-180 with 2x extender. The temps were just under 40. The during July and August in Europe the temps were even higher than Death Valley (as most know it was a very hot Summer of 2013). Using the EVF with 21SEM and and 24/1.4 combined with leaving it permanently on due to missing so many street shots from slow startup, I was getting lockup so much that I stopped using the EVF when I could get away with it. I sadly enough did not bring an optical VF on that trip since I never thought I would need it. In hind sight that was a mistake. I still got lockups with no EVF and permanently on so after turning auto off the 2 minutes then I could not frame precisely and missed many street shots in addition due to slow start up. Eventually, I started using the RX-1 since I could get better street shots and its EVF never locked up. My Solms showroom lockup was laughed off by Leica personnel who had access to the highest members of the Leica team, but from my knowledge said nothing about the problem. When Stephan Daniels came out into the showroom, I assumed my Leica contact would mention the problem to SD, but nothing happened. I was shocked, frankly and have had a bad taste in my mouth about QC/QA (who cares what its called-as that's all semantics) at Leica ever since that day. They do not manage customer expectations! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2013 Share #146 Posted November 8, 2013 And i thought that Florida is a paradise! Just kidding. As i said above, Leica told us during the last beta testing that the issue is related to a temperature depending mode being activated above 40°C. Don't ask me what it may mean please, but Leica did tell us that they will improve this behavior in the next firmware update, because it requires intensive testing and they didn't want to delay the public release of the current FU anymore. Just facts. We won't have to wait several months to get the lockups fixed hopefully but until then you'll have the opportunity to try your great R lenses on your little Sony and your findings will be of the greatest interest for R users like yours truly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share #147 Posted November 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Twelve unique features Leitz said. Interesting what were considered innovations back then (even if only in ad-speak) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 8, 2013 Share #148 Posted November 8, 2013 And i thought that Florida is a paradise! Just kidding. As i said above, Leica told us during the last beta testing that the issue is related to a temperature depending mode being activated above 40°C. Don't ask me what it may mean please, but Leica did tell us that they will improve this behavior in the next firmware update, because it requires intensive testing and they didn't want to delay the public release of the current FU anymore. Just facts. We won't have to wait several months to get the lockups fixed hopefully but until then you'll have the opportunity to try your great R lenses on your little Sony and your findings will be of the greatest interest for R users like yours truly. Why didn't Leica systematically test these things in a controlled environment before they sold the camera? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2013 Share #149 Posted November 8, 2013 That's what i do usually but i did an exception for the M240 and i've never regretted it so far. I only use randomly LV/EVF though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 8, 2013 Share #150 Posted November 8, 2013 Why didn't Leica systematically test these things in a controlled environment before they sold the camera? And why didn't they check IR sensitivity seriously on the M8? And why didn't they check lugs seriously before shipping some M240s? And why didn't they check flare seriously on the 50/2 apo? Because we go on spending little fortunes for these guys i guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted November 8, 2013 Share #151 Posted November 8, 2013 The operating range of electronic equipment is usually a temperature span of 0-40 degrees centigrade. It is in all the specifications, the M8 and M9 included.What is so strange about that? "Set to fail" is a ridiculous reversal. You might as well say that food with an expiry date is "set to make you sick" after that date. I haven't taken my M9 to places with extreme temperatures, but my M8's were definitely in some places where the temperatures went above 40°C and there were no issues. As a side note, I also once was in -43° weather outside for a couple of hours, with the camera unprotected and all that changed was that I replaced the battery a bit more often. This was better than film camera performance, where often the shutter would stop working and the film would tear at the sprocket holes. Henning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 8, 2013 Share #152 Posted November 8, 2013 Interesting what were considered innovations back then (even if only in ad-speak) Automatic Film Counter. What luxury! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted November 8, 2013 Share #153 Posted November 8, 2013 I sometimes wonder if it's best not to be at the front of the queue to buy a new product. After being an oblivious and unwilling beta tester of a newly released BMW 1200GS motorbike, which was the most unreliable thing I have ever owned, I have now taken the attitude that I will let a product mature and only buy it after all the bugs have been ironed out. Being an early adopters means you are akin to an extended BETA tester. I agree it's best to sit it out and wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 9, 2013 Share #154 Posted November 9, 2013 Given, that this is a serious problem (the camera shuts down during shooting), how long is a reasonable amount of time to fix a problem that renders the camera inoperable and caused me to switch cameras during the day and put the Leica away. In other words, I was carrying a brick half the day once it got hot. Now that Leica knows about this problem and probably has a firmware fix... just wondering how long it would take to release an updated firmware. I don't have any expertise in this area. You guys that have done this for a living, how long would be a reasonable amount of time to test and get a stable firmware update posted? Giving Leica the benifit of the doubt that they really weren't aware of it until September and let's say it has been a couple of months already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 9, 2013 Share #155 Posted November 9, 2013 Maybe they're busy planning a 'cool' new bag with dry ice inserts. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 9, 2013 Share #156 Posted November 9, 2013 Maybe they're busy planning a 'cool' new bag with dry ice inserts. Jeff And, maybe it would be cheaper for them to just replace my camera with a couple A7Rs and a nice Zeiss lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 9, 2013 Share #157 Posted November 9, 2013 And, maybe it would be cheaper for them to just replace my camera with a couple A7Rs and a nice Zeiss lens? Sounds like you've had a slightly "here we go again" moment too RickA7R. Hope they get that firmware out soonish. But I've been saying that about my M9P for over 3 years.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share #158 Posted November 9, 2013 Given, that this is a serious problem (the camera shuts down during shooting), how long is a reasonable amount of time to fix a problem that renders the camera inoperable and caused me to switch cameras during the day and put the Leica away. In other words, I was carrying a brick half the day once it got hot. Now that Leica knows about this problem and probably has a firmware fix... just wondering how long it would take to release an updated firmware. I don't have any expertise in this area. You guys that have done this for a living, how long would be a reasonable amount of time to test and get a stable firmware update posted? Giving Leica the benifit of the doubt that they really weren't aware of it until September and let's say it has been a couple of months already. I found it a rather annoying bug, but not a dramatic bug. After all, there is a simple solution i.e. switch off-switch on, and a simple workaround, i.e. disable auto switch-off and only switch the camera on when you want to use it. I prefer the solution to be flawless rather than soon. Flawless and soon would be perfect, but perhaps to much to hope for….. Of course, thet holdup might be the auto-iso rework, which has been placed high on the agenda by rather vocal forum voices . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 9, 2013 Share #159 Posted November 9, 2013 Nice spin. You really should be salaried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 10, 2013 Share #160 Posted November 10, 2013 In order to stay sane I went out today and shot the M and the 35FLE. No EVF or Video mic dongles in pockets. No LV, just classic mode. Sure does produce great images and shooting is a joy. And, I hate to agree with Jaap, but it is flawless and rock-solid if, you just pretend it is only ever supposed to be a slightly better M9. I mean really, who wanted this this LV and video anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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