Confirming the temperature problem.

[dugby]

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I hope Leica will be able to fix it - if it is a hardware problem it might not be too easy. It is not the end of the world, the camera remains operable and there is a workaround, but it is rather annoying.

 

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[Jeff S]

Lost me here... That is about the specs in the manual.

 

Now you lost me.

 

I was responding to your sentence in post #1 reading..."Before we get a Leica-should-have discussion, all digital cameras and other digital gear, unless designed -expensively- for extreme temperature use, have operating ranges like 0-40 degrees." (bold added)

 

Most all digital cameras and digital gear are set to fail above 40 degrees?

 

Again, the M8 and M9 don't. You didn't limit your above comment to live view use; you added that later when I first questioned your comment.

 

No intent to make this a big deal...we just seem to be on different wavelengths...or temps.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

The operating range of electronic equipment is usually a temperature span of 0-40 degrees centigrade. It is in all the specifications, the M8 and M9 included.What is so strange about that?

 

"Set to fail" is a ridiculous reversal. You might as well say that food with an expiry date is "set to make you sick" after that date.

[Jeff S]

Heat got to you?

 

The quote I excerpted made no mention of a manual; rather it spoke to operating ranges. The M doesn't hold up to the standard of many other digital cameras, Leica included. An average day in July in Las Vegas is above 40 degrees....hardly extreme.

 

I'm done here.

 

Jeff

[nlm6]

I have this happen even without LV/EVF, and if it is a temp issue it makes the camera unusable in any high temp area. You can’t effectively shoot while having to turn off the camera all the time. The idea that this is just an annoyance is being too forgiving of Leica... other brands don't have this issue.

This is the biggest problem with the camera that I have noticed so far.

 

If this is not fixed soon, or can’t be fixed at all, I am going to quickly regret this purchase.

[Rick]

This is a known problem. This repeatedly happened to me for the month of September while beta testing. It was reported to Leica by several of us then. Leica acknowledged, "there were discussions about the EVF switching off after a shot. This we take of course very serious, and we now found out that this is related to a temperature depending mode, that is being activated above 40°C."

 

In recent conversations with Leica I was told, the EVF problem in hot environment will be solved with the next Firmware-update and I also told Leica about the dim shutter problem."

 

It was not placed in the last beta because, Leica only became aware of it through discussions by some of the beta testers in the very last weeks of the beta testing.

[wlaidlaw]

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I was going to take a mid range zoom (Zeiss Vario Sonnar 28-85) with me when my wife and I go to south India next February, as this lens works so well with the M240. All this makes me wonder whether I should instead revert to my standard holiday lens of the MATE. The M240 really shows up the limitations of the 28mm focal length on the MATE.

 

Wilson

 

PS This is probably dependent on the date of the next FW update.

[pieterpronk]

In recent conversations with Leica I was told, the EVF problem in hot environment will be solved with the next Firmware-update and I also told Leica about the dim shutter problem."

 

Ah, good, the next firmware update, so it will be just in time for summer! (at least in the northern hemisphere).

[John Black]

The stated specs for the Canon 1D-x are:

 

Working Temperature Range

32-104°F/0-40°C

 

It'll be interesting to see how Sony A7 users fare next summer since they have no option but LV/EVF.

[jaapv]

This is a known problem. This repeatedly happened to me for the month of September while beta testing. It was reported to Leica by several of us then. Leica acknowledged, "there were discussions about the EVF switching off after a shot. This we take of course very serious, and we now found out that this is related to a temperature depending mode, that is being activated above 40°C."

 

In recent conversations with Leica I was told, the EVF problem in hot environment will be solved with the next Firmware-update and I also told Leica about the dim shutter problem."

 

It was not placed in the last beta because, Leica only became aware of it through discussions by some of the beta testers in the very last weeks of the beta testing.

 

Thanks Rick, I was aware it was known, hence the word confirming in the title. Your post is all I need to know. I hope Leica is aware that temperatures can run up to 45 degrees in many tropical settings.

[wlaidlaw]

In the middle of the summer in the south of France, I quite often see the CPU temperature in my Macbook Pro up in the high 70º’s or low 80º’s, if it is doing some processor intensive work, like converting a large batch of DNG’s into 16 bit TIFF’s. My Macbook Pro is now over 4 years old and working as well as ever. I wonder therefore, if Leica have been over-conservative in setting their temperature trip points.

 

Wilson

[algrove]

This is what disturbs me the most about this unfortunate situation:

 

I made this point in other posts some time ago. In mid August 2013, I was sitting in CS Solms for about 3 hours with one of the techs in a private room and I was going through my check list of questions and comments after having shot about 8000 images between 2 M's.

 

When I got to my comment specific to camera cutouts where if it was a bad situation with constant red light I would have to remove the battery and if the lock up was not with a constant red light, I would have to turn camera off an then back on. The tech looked surprised and said he never had this problem and had never heard of this problem.

 

Then the tech went back into the office and came out with a test M. He asked me for every setting on my camera so that they could perhaps emulate the problem with their camera. I explained that it mostly occurred when using EVF. It was a very hot European Summer and as such I was getting the freezes A LOT.

 

So it just makes me wonder what happened with the information I imparted to Leica during the hours I spent with them on my vacation time.

 

So now I hear it took Beta testers to impart the same problems over a month later for Leica to take notice. My problems did not seem to matter to Leica and that will never make me feel good about Leica CS Solms ability to take on real customers' issues and try to communicate within the Leica organization that internal temperatures were going too high while using the EVF. I even had a lock up occur while in the Showroom with Stephen Daniels 20 feet away. The Leica individual I was with told me he had it happen once and he changed EVF and it had never occurred again to him. That did not work for me.

[jaapv]

Leica CS is not the place for such problems. If needed, they must refer to the QA department.

[jaapv]

In the middle of the summer in the south of France, I quite often see the CPU temperature in my Macbook Pro up in the high 70º’s or low 80º’s, if it is doing some processor intensive work, like converting a large batch of DNG’s into 16 bit TIFF’s. My Macbook Pro is now over 4 years old and working as well as ever. I wonder therefore, if Leica have been over-conservative in setting their temperature trip points.

 

Wilson

My Macbook Air ran very hot too, with the fan running constantly. But it kept working. A new Lexar Pro card suffered heatstroke, though.

[Rick]

Thanks Rick, I was aware it was known, hence the word confirming in the title. Your post is all I need to know. I hope Leica is aware that temperatures can run up to 45 degrees in many tropical settings.

 

Yes, I remember you posting as a beta tester in mid-September that you were going to give it a trial when on your holiday in Africa. Now you can see for yourself why I commented that Leica needed to sort this out and the EVF is a "dud" and I mostly gave up using it on this trip.

 

I have disabled the battery saver modes (like you have) and just shoot the mode that is on all the time. This way I turn the camera off when I want it off. This might be right after each shot or I may just leave the camera on during longer periods that I know I want to be able to shoot immediately.

 

If, you think about this it makes a lot more sense than letting the camera "decide" that very 2 minutes, let's say, you aren't going to need the camera. The sleep modes would be fine if it didn't take the camera 2-4 seconds to wake up... photo opportunity missed!

 

So, I decide. I don't leave it up to the camera to go to sleep every 2 minutes. Besides, as it has been pointed out, waking from sleep mode by touching the shutter release is the same speed to wake up as it is to just turn the camera on with the on dial.

 

Manually turning the camera off combined with just turning off LV when not framing solves the heat up issue most of the time because, after a shot I don't let the EVF run for 2-minutes. I just turn it off so it doesn't over heat. Batteries last longer too (battery life with the EVF and 2-minute sleep is dismal).

[Obbucket]

I wouldn't mind, this happened to me again today and it is 12 degrees in the uk. I guess as this is not temperature related I have to send the camera back - thoughts ?

[Rick]

I wouldn't mind, this happened to me again today and it is 12 degrees in the uk. I guess as this is not temperature related I have to send the camera back - thoughts ?

 

What were you doing at the time and what happened?

[algrove]

Leica CS is not the place for such problems. If needed, they must refer to the QA department.

 

Ok, so why didn't CS refer me to QA Dept while I was there from the USA rather than ask me to take about a half an hour to explain to them what was happening and also make note of all my camera settings? Guess I should have pressed the point with Andrea.

 

For sure it is needed to refer the problem to the QA Dept! By the way, what does QA mean? I know QC, just don't know what QA Dept is.

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[barjohn]

QA usually stands for Quality Assurance and QC for Quality Control.

[algrove]

QA usually stands for Quality Assurance and QC for Quality Control.

 

Well that is interesting since with all the Leica problems over the recent past with this M camera now know there is no QA Department. Jaap you are steering me to a non existent department!