jonoslack Posted October 22, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi There. Not sure if this deserves another thread of it's own. But the other thread was getting a bit negative, so I thought I'd treat myself to a new one Emma and I went to visit Neal Simons (Fast&Prime) on our way from Norfolk to Cornwall. He was very hospitable, and took us around the tannery. I thought it was worth a short article, so here it is: Bags of English Leather This is Neal Simon in a remote corner of the Colyton Tannery with his M8: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! and here are some of the bags: Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! and here are some of the bags: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/215151-fast-and-prime-part-ii/?do=findComment&comment=2447809'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 22, 2013 Posted October 22, 2013 Hi jonoslack, Take a look here Fast and Prime - part II. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted October 22, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 22, 2013 When I was a kid, we had horses (I had about 5, if I recall correctly). My passion was hunting (hares, in this part of the World, but otherwise the genuine tally-ho madness) - I know, the indefensible in pursuit of the inedible. Let's not turn this into town versus country. The craftsmanship which goes into these bags resonates with me. It reminds me of tackle and saddle soap, and beautifully crafted saddles out of wood and thick leather, become supple with age. While I applaud the craft, that horsey, buckles and straps look, unrelated to function, leaves me cold I'm afraid. Apply that craft to a modern design, with supple materials and the joy of just touching something well made and well designed, and I'd slap down a deposit in a heartbeat. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted October 22, 2013 When I was a kid, we had horses (I had about 5, if I recall correctly). My passion was hunting (hares, in this part of the World, but otherwise the genuine tally-ho madness) - I know, the indefensible in pursuit of the inedible. Let's not turn this into town versus country. The craftsmanship which goes into these bags resonates with me. It reminds me of tackle and saddle soap, and beautifully crafted saddles out of wood and thick leather, become supple with age. While I applaud the craft, that horsey, buckles and straps look, unrelated to function, leaves me cold I'm afraid. Apply that craft to a modern design, with supple materials and the joy of just touching something well made and well designed, and I'd slap down a deposit in a heartbeat. Cheers John Hi John As far as function is concerned, my impression was that the cases and the holsters were interestingly and differently functional (never could deduce a good reason for a half case). But I'm not a salesman, and I certainly don't have a vested interest (I do ride horses though - so perhaps that's why I like the cases). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 22, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 22, 2013 Hi Jono, Did you buy one? How does it work out in practice? They look rather bulky and 'over engineered' for the purpose, though clearly made from quality leather. I'm sure their horse at ok is excellent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted October 23, 2013 Hi Jono, Did you buy one? How does it work out in practice? They look rather bulky and 'over engineered' for the purpose, though clearly made from quality leather. I'm sure their horse at ok is excellent. Hi There There's a waiting list for several months, and I'm certainly not jumping any queues, but I liked the agent 86J case, and whilst I acknowledge the fact that it's hardly stealth, I'm not really willing to use an old canvas kit bag, and I'm not sure that anything else really counts as stealth. Anyway I haven't got one, so I can't really comment on it in use. all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 23, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 23, 2013 Well I'm glad they're selling so many of them! It's always nice to see manufacturing in this country. I was a bit unkind with my remarks in the other thread - they don't look like opportunists that I thought they might be, and they're based close to where my brother lives, so I might even pop by some time and treat myself to a strap. That said, I still don't like the look of the larger cases, and I'd never spend that kind of money on a camera bag, even if I could afford it. I prefer to use non camera bags and adapt them - small rucksacks or 'man bags' which don't scream CAMERAS!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted October 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well I'm glad they're selling so many of them! It's always nice to see manufacturing in this country. I was a bit unkind with my remarks in the other thread - they don't look like opportunists that I thought they might be, and they're based close to where my brother lives, so I might even pop by some time and treat myself to a strap. That said, I still don't like the look of the larger cases, and I'd never spend that kind of money on a camera bag, even if I could afford it. I prefer to use non camera bags and adapt them - small rucksacks or 'man bags' which don't scream CAMERAS!!! Well, I quite understand. I have my Leica kit insured, and I like nice bags! Let's face it, you can pay thousands for a nice handbag, and the leather might easily have come from the same tannery! I'm afraid that 'selling so many' isn't that extreme if it takes more than a week's work to make one - hence the waiting list - he's certainly not showing signs of great wealth (driving a T reg car) . . . . . and to be honest I think it's the same for straps. But I'm sure Neal would love you to drop in - you might be seduced! all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 23, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 23, 2013 Nicely done, Jono, as one would expect. Lou Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neal at FAST+PRIME Posted October 27, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 27, 2013 Hello everyone, This is my first post on the forum and thought this thread might be a good place for me to say hello and perhaps give a just a bit more information about what I’m about and trying to do, if it’s of any interest. I'd like to thank Jonathan and his wife Emma for their very kind visit to my workshop in our new home town of Charmouth, Dorset. It was fantastic to meet them and get the chance to discuss my work and ideas with someone who has so much experience. I have read many of Jonathan’s fair and insightful camera reviews over the years and was interested to see what he might think of Fast+Prime. Since my business is run solely online and sold direct (and our somewhat remote location), it is a rare occurrence to meet anyone in the Leica world face to face. Let’s just say, having spent the last 2 years of 12 hour days sewing cases in my various workshops had the unexpected feeling of being a bug from which the rock where you live has just been lifted!! (thank you both for your understanding!!) Hopefully I might have got there in the end?? I greatly appreciate anyone who might have taken the time to read about their visit and/or have a look at our site. It’s been a long road full of many wrong turns and detours but feel very fortunate to have found my place and run this very small business. Also has been a wonderful experience to get the chance to be in contact with so many interesting, kind and talented people/photographers. Having the chance to work with well known professionals/ photojournalists/ creative directors/ artists or just weekend warriors (like myself) has been very inspiring. I cannot argue with the many posts from those who simply do not like our cases/products. I won’t go into the ins and outs about our construction techniques, materials or try to convince you. Can only say, I've tried to find the best materials that are possible and my number 1 goal is usefulness to the best of my ability (i.e. fast access to your very protected camera, and comfort), and that’s hard to demonstrate sight unseen. Any ancillary benefits such as style might come from our use of beautiful materials and robust saddlery construction techniques, but only in the pursuit of achieving our 1st objective (use). I understand there is aesthetic value and this is important, but not equally so, imho. I rate the tactile experience higher than aesthetics in these forms. As we all know, these gear choices are as individual as the clothes you wear and all I want to do is put forward my perspective on things. I believe there is room for this in such a highly saturated and diverse use market. Hate my products, hate me for making them - so be it, what can you do? I’m just one guy (luckily with fantastic support and help from my wife Lauren and saddler friend/colleague Squidgie) trying to say something which I believe is very important. My main concerns are for the craftsmanship, materials and ease/longevity of use of our products. Thankfully our tannery and their old-world and ethical techniques for making hides are still very sought after in this day and age. I understand price considerations, but these difficult hand sewing skills require an immense amount of time to perform properly, just like the hides require to tan (1 year). That is the only reason they are relatively expensive. But are they really, when you consider their potential lifetime use?? Also to put it bluntly, we’re dealing with a dead animal here. One who's remains can be carefully and respectfully transformed into an honest, robust and useful product that (with care) could last a lifetime. Or, just some thinned down throw away, here today, not worth fixing, last a few years... whatever. I’m not saying I’m the only one with this view, but many potential offerings make me wonder. I have no interest in traditional luxury based on status or being seen as this exclusive brand with no real substance. My only desire is that clients find our cases useful, period. If we have nothing that interests you now, perhaps one day we might. One consideration when discussing the type of products we offer is scale- your local family bakery is like a huge conglomerate compared to us!! I like to think we may punch above our weight and want to have more of an impact in the market and employ/ apprentice many more like minded people. This will take time and hopefully we’ll get there. I have no ambition (or the necessary skill) to be a great photographer, writer, musician etc, but these products are my voice. I've perhaps set myself up here by sticking my head above the parapet, but what the hell- a chance to say what I think and think I've said all I can. I hope I have been able to articulate my ideas. Thank you for listening. Sincerely, Neal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 27, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 27, 2013 I think the other thread is just another LUF bandwagon. The cases are stunning and look like they will last a life time. I can see the work and passion that has gone into them, well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted October 27, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 27, 2013 I have one of Neil's straps, and it is a gorgeous piece of craftsmanship. You can like or dislike his bags, but we should welcome, as Jono did, what he's trying to do; the fact that he is trying to make a bespoke bag worthy of our precious cameras; and his entrepreneurship. He's also a very good guy to deal with! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted October 27, 2013 I have no ambition (or the necessary skill) to be a great photographer, writer, musician etc, but these products are my voice. I've perhaps set myself up here by sticking my head above the parapet, but what the hell- a chance to say what I think and think I've said all I can. I hope I have been able to articulate my ideas. Excellent Neal. I might argue with you about your skill at photography (your lovely double landscape for example). I think you have articulated your ideas really clearly, I'm sure that at the very least people will understand. All the best, and thank you again for your hospitality. Perhaps we'll meet again on our next trip to Cornwall in January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 28, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 28, 2013 The cases are stunning and look like they will last a life time. All camera bags last a lifetime, because they all eventually go right at the back in the top of the wardrobe to fossilise long before they are worn out. It is a precarious business model creating consumer goods that last a lifetime because they also need to satisfy for a lifetime. Otherwise they become the much regretted purchase languishing right at the back in the top of the wardrobe, and not just another cheap experiment that did nobody any harm for a bit of fun. Goods don't have to be expensive to satisfy, and consumer satisfaction is more precious than price or build quality or the fact that they bought it knowing it will last a lifetime. Satisfaction means that even if it did wear out they would buy another, or have it repaired. There are for instance any number of rigid leather camera case's (bags) still around from their heyday in the 1950's and 60's, I have a black rectangular one by Nikon that is indestructible. I haven't seen one used for thirty years. Materials and ergonomic considerations change and evolve for good reason, so combining 'retro' with 'lifetime' is more than a bit like re-inventing the wheel. But I do appreciate good workmanship. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted October 28, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2013 Neal, Welcome to the forum and thank you for having the guts and conviction to, in person, put the case so eloquently for your skills and business here. Your views on quality and utility over form resonate with me and I applaud you for adding to the so sadly depleted British manufacturing industry in a meaningful way. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted October 28, 2013 Hi Steve All camera bags last a lifetime, because they all eventually go right at the back in the top of the wardrobe to fossilise long before they are worn out. Not sure what you do with your bags, but I have a whole porch full of worn out bags - mostly with canvas worn bare and leather cracked,dry and dead . . . I just can't bring myself to ditch them. . . . but I do use them every day. But I take your point about your Nikon bag . . . and i realise that things are for now - But Neal's main point isn't that they'll last a lifetime, but that they've been designed to be absolutely utilitarian (and you don't have to worry about longevity). So if you buy one of his bags, and it goes into the wardrobe . . at least when your grand-daughter finds it and things it might be funky to use for her make-up . . . it'll still look great Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 29, 2013 Share #16 Posted October 29, 2013 Neal, I appreciate your taking the time to explain your ideas and methods, and your priorities too. There's much to admire in your approach. But I still find the bags ugly. I know this is a very personal, subjective thing and whatever you make, some people will love it and others won't. But I do strongly believe that the qualities that people often admire in Leica's more elegant products such as the MP and M9P, those of simple, almost stripped-down functionalism in a balanced un-ornamenedl form, in the smallest size possible that's consistent with the technology available, appear, despite your explanation, to have gone awry in these bags.They appear heavy to me, clumsy even, and over-elaborate to the extent that they are no longer suitable for the simple purpose of carrying and protecting a little camera. I don't say this to be be hurtful. Quite the opposite in fact. it's evident that the quality of the product is high and that you are a thoughtful and sincere person, and yours is a business model that I'd love to see succeed. So I hope there's room in your approach to consider another line, one which manages to embrace a slightly different aesthetic. In any event, I wish you and your business well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 31, 2013 Share #17 Posted October 31, 2013 :eek: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted November 1, 2013 Share #18 Posted November 1, 2013 ... My main concerns are for the craftsmanship, materials and ease/longevity of use of our products. Thankfully our tannery and their old-world and ethical techniques for making hides are still very sought after in this day and age. I understand price considerations, but these difficult hand sewing skills require an immense amount of time to perform properly, just like the hides require to tan (1 year). That is the only reason they are relatively expensive. But are they really, when you consider their potential lifetime use?? Also to put it bluntly, we’re dealing with a dead animal here. One who's remains can be carefully and respectfully transformed into an honest, robust and useful product that (with care) could last a lifetime. Or, just some thinned down throw away, here today, not worth fixing, last a few years... whatever. I’m not saying I’m the only one with this view, but many potential offerings make me wonder. I have no interest in traditional luxury based on status or being seen as this exclusive brand with no real substance. My only desire is that clients find our cases useful, period. If we have nothing that interests you now, perhaps one day we might. One consideration when discussing the type of products we offer is scale- your local family bakery is like a huge conglomerate compared to us!! I like to think we may punch above our weight and want to have more of an impact in the market and employ/ apprentice many more like minded people. This will take time and hopefully we’ll get there. I have no ambition (or the necessary skill) to be a great photographer, writer, musician etc, but these products are my voice. I've perhaps set myself up here by sticking my head above the parapet, but what the hell- a chance to say what I think and think I've said all I can. I hope I have been able to articulate my ideas. Thank you for listening. Sincerely, Neal Many thanks for taking the time and courage to answer. I honestly admire those that still try to make long-lasting products in this time. As to some initial feedback, please remember that this is Internet. As such many find it easier to put off others work than to produce something them-self. All the best! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan_w Posted November 1, 2013 Share #19 Posted November 1, 2013 I admire people who stil work in a traditional way, and here in Europe. The bags look very nice. Would be nice to add a link somewhere Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted November 4, 2013 Share #20 Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks for posting. The products look top notch and I like that they're different. Maybe not to everyone's taste but that makes them more special IMO. Why not make a leather cover for a regular film M? I know I'd buy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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