onceuponatime Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Think of any premium brand : Saville Row, Burberry, Mercedes, LVuitton, Patek Philippe, Bentley. Leica is in the same category. That is why there will always be a demand for Leica and the reason why Leica maintains its premium price to go with is premium brand. As soon as Leica sways to the ever changing fickle winds of mass consumer, Leica will loose its Preium Brand status. My message to Leica, keep the courage to maintain your premium brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Hi onceuponatime, Take a look here The Market for Premium Brands. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted October 21, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2013 As soon as Leica sways to the ever changing fickle winds of mass consumer, Leica will loose its Preium Brand status. Not sure about Burberry and MB in that analogy, but, Leica have had cheap(er) consumer cameras in their range for many years now, from the CL, to the Mini, and the PanaLeica's. Sales of digital PanaLeica's kept Leica going for a few years when sales of film M's had dropped significantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baci Posted October 21, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 21, 2013 I want a manual camera and enjoy the experience of shooting rangefinder. Leica M is the only way to do this without going to second hand bodies. Plus the build quality and feel in the hand is wonderful. Premium brand or otherwise I couldn't care less. As a person pursuing a particular photographic experience I have no alternative. And I don't mind that. If you're buying a Leica M because it's "luxury" then thank you. You're helping to support production volumes and keep the company in business. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted October 21, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2013 With a well established premium brand, and some astute management companies like Leica can keep going, but without astute management even the most prestigious brand can fail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted October 21, 2013 I want a manual camera and enjoy the experience of shooting rangefinder. Plus the build quality and feel in the hand is wonderful. Analog M yes. Digital M isnt a patch on the build quality of Analog M (eg M3, M6). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baci Posted October 21, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2013 Analog M yes. Digital M isnt a patch on the build quality of Analog M (eg M3, M6). A pleasure that awaits me. Almost bought an M4 on the weekend... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 26, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 26, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Burberry make scarfes, louis vuitton handbags, there are plenty of luxury car and watch options- and they all tell the time or drive from a to b... Personally I think people who spend 1000 dollars on a scarf, 2000 dollars for a handbag- or 20,000 dollars for a watch: are somewhat disgusting folks. Leica sells digital camera tech products. For a while they had the tech advantage of the smallest FF camera, now they only have the tech advantage of the only FF RF camera. The second another company makes a FF RF camera that costs one third the price and has greater functionality- Leica is going to find its prices hard to justify- at least for me- luxury brand or no. I only buy Leica for the technical reasons and only stomach the luxury prices because I have to if I want that type of camera. I am pretty sure I would feel like an idiot paying three times the price for a less functional camera- and a red dot wouldn't comfort me much- no matter how prestigious that dot is... So I am happy there is competition in the compact FF market at last- I hope it forces Leica to innovate and compete rather than resting on luxury brand status. Having said all of that I think there will always be a market for Leica Luxury: as long as their are people who have millions of dollars burning a hole on their swiss bank accounts - and a need to display their wealth ostentatiously... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 26, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 26, 2013 Well put for a socialistic comment. Maybe a 20k watch will go up or hold value, but any Leica digital camera will only go down in value. Why criticize other peoples' buying habits when if you look around there are plenty that can criticize you for your Leica product purchases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 27, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 27, 2013 why? Because I can- it is a (nominally) free world. And I am quite happy to cop some in return- as I don't think for a second that I am not a hypocrite. I am well aware of my own hypocrisy and personally think some of my own habits are quite disgusting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 27, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 27, 2013 Mercedes is a premium brand? I thought it was the Taxi brand. Due to our weird tax system Mercedes or BMW or whatever isn't really that much more expensive than a similarly specced Toyota here. So I don't understand your analogy. The M costs the same as a EOS-1 DX or D4 body, which is the only bodies it can be compared to in regards to build quality. And there are no lenses for those cameras that performs as good as the M lenses (except some exotic manual focus glass, which just doesn't work as a every-day usable solution on these cameras since they are built for AF). These cameras doesn't have the choice of using lenses - natively - from 60 years back in time either, with full native functionality. Am I the only one that doesn't think of the M and it's lenses as super expensive when you compare it to comparable systems? Yes, it is expensive compared to a Nex or a Fuji X. But you can't really compare them as systems at all. That's like comparing the EOS-1 DX to a T3i/600D. They can both take the same lenses, after all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 28, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 28, 2013 Please keep in mind your tax system is right up there near the top of the list as prohibitive. They are advertising MB C250 (I think it is that model) at US$29,900 here in the US which is on par with a Kia SUV crossover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted October 28, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 28, 2013 They are advertising MB C250 (I think it is that model) at US$29,900 here in the US which is on par with a Kia SUV crossover. CLA. It's one of the third generation (W176) versions of the A Class Mercedes. The A Class has been around for a while now (since 1997 with the W168) but just not in the US. The CLA is an attempted to get oversized Americans to fit into an undersized car, despite the Mercedes 'premium' mythology. btw, the W168 is infamous for failing the "elk test" and eventually forcing a recall. I think many of the so-called 'luxury' mfgs make less expensive versions to help extend market shares. Leica does it too with their re-badged Panasonics. I personally wouldn't call the Leica C (Lumix DMC-LF1) a 'premium' camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted October 28, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 28, 2013 With a well established premium brand, and some astute management companies like Leica can keep going, but without astute management even the most prestigious brand can fail. Totally agree. But I will also add abilities like "prudence and wisdom". Management's loss of ground contact and distorted perception of reality has led many businesses in the ditch. “Forever is owned, - only a bad reputation”. Sung by the Norwegian rock singer Henning Kvitnes. Well, for those who want to spend 3.5 minutes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted October 29, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 29, 2013 The M costs the same as a EOS-1 DX or D4 body, which is the only bodies it can be compared to in regards to build quality. And there are no lenses for those cameras that performs as good as the M lenses (except some exotic manual focus glass, which just doesn't work as a every-day usable solution Really? I've no experience of the M, but the fit and finish of a Canon 5DIII is definitely comparable to an M9, plus it has a remorseless level of reliability that no digital Leica can match. The lenses are variable and the more exotic zooms have a tendency to drift out of alignment, but there are many autofocus Canon lenses that are near the optical level of Leica. The latest stabilised wide lenses are very good and even across the frame, the 35f1.4 is excellent, the cheap 50 macro is good, the 85s are good, the 135 f2 is startlingly sharp, all of the long fast lenses are excellent, the tilt shifts are renowned for their high performance. By embracing modern manufacturing techniques it's possible to combine very high quality with reasonable price; although I accept that a reasonable price tag alone is enough to make a camera unattractive to those hankering after "premium brands". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 29, 2013 Share #15 Posted October 29, 2013 The M costs the same as a EOS-1 DX or D4 body, which is the only bodies it can be compared to in regards to build quality. ... The build quality is indeed high- in as much as the camera is housed in brass and other hard, heavy materials, etc. But - largely due to the manner of use of these very materials - the Leica M digital cameras are all very prone to severe and costly damage in even the most trifling of falls. A watch maker would conclude they have relatively poor homeostatic qualities... I doubt a digital Leica could pass even the first part of the first stage of the following torture test: personally I would love to see a digital RF camera built largely out of plastics- if it could be made as durable as the amazing 7d Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 29, 2013 Share #16 Posted October 29, 2013 The build quality is indeed high- in as much as the camera is housed in brass and other hard, heavy materials, etc. But - largely due to the manner of use of these very materials - the Leica M digital cameras are all very prone to severe and costly damage in even the most trifling of falls. A watch maker would conclude they have relatively poor homeostatic qualities... I doubt a digital Leica could pass even the first part of the first stage of the following torture test: personally I would love to see a digital RF camera built largely out of plastics- if it could be made as durable as the amazing 7d The reliability of the 7D is amazing. But it is not made from plastic, it has a magnesium alloy body: [url=http://files.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/canon-7d-magnesium-body.jpg][/url]http://files.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/canon-7d-magnesium-body.jpg A expensive Rolex doesn't take as much beating as a high quality Seiko either. Still, the Rolex are built with far more exotic materials. So you are right. The main problem with the Leica M is that they are built like a tank, but knock it one little bit and the rangefinder needs a re-calibration right away even though the camera is working perfectly otherwise. A true weak spot of this system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #17 Posted October 29, 2013 CLA. It's one of the third generation (W176) versions of the A Class Mercedes. The A Class has been around for a while now (since 1997 with the W168) but just not in the US. The CLA is an attempted to get oversized Americans to fit into an undersized car, despite the Mercedes 'premium' mythology. btw, the W168 is infamous for failing the "elk test" and eventually forcing a recall. I think many of the so-called 'luxury' mfgs make less expensive versions to help extend market shares. Leica does it too with their re-badged Panasonics. I personally wouldn't call the Leica C (Lumix DMC-LF1) a 'premium' camera. Saw the ad again last night. You are correct that it is the CLA 250. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 29, 2013 Share #18 Posted October 29, 2013 The reliability of the 7D is amazing. But it is not made from plastic, it has a magnesium alloy body: http://files.doobybrain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/canon-7d-magnesium-body.jpg A expensive Rolex doesn't take as much beating as a high quality Seiko either. Still, the Rolex are built with far more exotic materials. So you are right. The main problem with the Leica M is that they are built like a tank, but knock it one little bit and the rangefinder needs a re-calibration right away even though the camera is working perfectly otherwise. A true weak spot of this system. I flew to Thailand a few years back and packed my M6 only. When I got there- went to focus- the RF was WAY off. No idea how it happened- camera was so well packed. Had to focus of the lens scale for the duration of the trip... Personally I would love to see a ruggedised DRF camera: weather sealed and shock proof, and I couldn't care less what materials were used to make it -as long as it was as durable as possible -like the Canon. I would happily trade milled brass for kevlar, advanced plastics and magnesium alloy... I can see the camera in my minds eye: a simple rounded black box- a bit liek the Konica Hexar RF but matte black. RF, OVF windows inset slightly into the body, discrete flip doors on the sides for data in/out. FF and 1/3 the price of Leica.... one day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #19 Posted October 29, 2013 I flew to Thailand a few years back and packed my M6 only. When I got there- went to focus- the RF was WAY off. No idea how it happened- camera was so well packed. Had to focus of the lens scale for the duration of the trip... Personally I would love to see a ruggedised DRF camera: weather sealed and shock proof, and I couldn't care less what materials were used to make it -as long as it was as durable as possible -like the Canon. I would happily trade milled brass for kevlar, advanced plastics and magnesium alloy... I can see the camera in my minds eye: a simple rounded black box- a bit liek the Konica Hexar RF but matte black. RF, OVF windows inset slightly into the body, discrete flip doors on the sides for data in/out. FF and 1/3 the price of Leica.... one day. You mean like the price of the a7r? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 30, 2013 Share #20 Posted October 30, 2013 well- yes- therabouts would be just fine Heck even half the M price would suit me better than current FF DRF pricing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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