jaapv Posted August 31, 2014 Share #361 Posted August 31, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) If your definition of a magician is a moderately competent photographer, so be it.... Do you seriously think that Leica would have been selling these lenses successfully for decades if people were unable to focus and compose with them ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 31, 2014 Posted August 31, 2014 Hi jaapv, Take a look here What do you want in the next digital M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
larsv Posted August 31, 2014 Share #362 Posted August 31, 2014 I don't believe you. Do a close-up and get the eye-lashes in focus, now re-compose by 2/3, shoot and get the eye-lashes in perfect focus on the first frame. Sorry, but everyone knows that this is not possible to compensate perfectly for with such a paper-thin depth-of-field. Unless you're a magician... I do believe a rangefinder system is not for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted August 31, 2014 Share #363 Posted August 31, 2014 I must say, I'm better using autofocus on fast moving subjects. I've been chasing my dogs with my MP and a 135mm lens on it. Whilst it is not too difficult to get some good sharp shots when they are running from left to right (I assume they are when I have developed them), I find it impossible for me to keep them in focus all the time when they suddenly decide to run towards or away from me. As a hobby photographer I have no problem shooting this or sports with a rangefinder, but if I needed to make a living out of it, I'd be better off with a 1DX. * Waiting to be kicked from the Leica forum now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 31, 2014 Share #364 Posted August 31, 2014 The trick is not to try and keep them in focus all the time, just when you push the shutter button Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted August 31, 2014 Share #365 Posted August 31, 2014 If your definition of a magician is a moderately competent photographer, so be it....Do you seriously think that Leica would have been selling these lenses successfully for decades if people were unable to focus and compose with them ? That was not my point, and you know it. Shoot at f/0.95 on a close subject, let's say, a portrait. You want the eyes and eyelashes in proper focus. You need to focus and re-compose because you can't have the subject in the middle of the frame, because, typically, that is not a good portrait shot... Unless you do it that way and crop, of course. So you focus, you re-compose, and you are basically saying that with that thin depth of field, you are confident that you can focus, recompose and grab your one shot with the eyes perfectly in focus without leaning back, forward, and doing multiple exposures to be sure that you nail it? It is technically not possible with a center focus patch to perform that under those conditions without lots of trial and error, and yet you are still capable of pulling that off, no problems. Yeah. Okay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted August 31, 2014 Share #366 Posted August 31, 2014 I do believe a rangefinder system is not for you. I do believe you are not getting the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 31, 2014 Share #367 Posted August 31, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) #369.... If you don't even know which way to lean I can believe you find it difficult. It becomes completely instinctive. With a bit of practice. And, oh yes, it was your point. You are telling us that what generations of rangefinder photographers have been doing with success is impossible. There is but one conclusion to be drawn from that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 31, 2014 Share #368 Posted August 31, 2014 I do believe you are not getting the point. Maybe you are the one missing the point, namely that of rangefinder photography? There are all kinds of cameras out there and just a few of these are rangefinders. It is a niche market and the number of customers preferring rangefinders is small; still the market is quite stable and with the advent of digital rangefinders it may even be growing. Leica is quite aware of the fact that there are also photographers preferring non-rangefinder models and for those they have offerings addressing their needs. But the M system is a rangefinder system; that’s what defines it and sets it apart from the rest – and that is what it will continue to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 31, 2014 Share #369 Posted August 31, 2014 Leica is quite aware of the fact that there are also photographers preferring non-rangefinder models and for those they have offerings addressing their needs. . And they even added EVF capability to the M to make it convenient for those who choose not to use, or are incapable of using, the RF with Noctilux (or other lens) wide open for portraits. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted August 31, 2014 Share #370 Posted August 31, 2014 That was not my point, and you know it. Shoot at f/0.95 on a close subject, let's say, a portrait. You want the eyes and eyelashes in proper focus. You need to focus and re-compose because you can't have the subject in the middle of the frame, because, typically, that is not a good portrait shot... Unless you do it that way and crop, of course. So you focus, you re-compose, and you are basically saying that with that thin depth of field, you are confident that you can focus, recompose and grab your one shot with the eyes perfectly in focus without leaning back, forward, and doing multiple exposures to be sure that you nail it? It is technically not possible with a center focus patch to perform that under those conditions without lots of trial and error, and yet you are still capable of pulling that off, no problems. Yeah. Okay. Again - you think too much, overcomplicating things. Recomposing after focussing is never an issue, even with the slimmest of DOF once you get the hang of using a Leica RF (or SLR). Noctilux f1 wide open: portrait - funky glasses by teknopunk.com, on Flickr Noctilux f1 wide open: portrait - JC - desk looking up by teknopunk.com, on Flickr pre war 5cm f2 Summar, wide open: portrait - two women - fashion by teknopunk.com, on Flickr 8.5cm f1.5 Nippon Kogaku LTM wide open: portrait - JC - table - color by teknopunk.com, on Flickr When I started shooting with a M6 + 50 Summilux as my first RF camera I had issues getting fire hydrants, brick walls and mannequins in focus. It took me a few years to feel totally comfortable with a Leica M. In terms of focussing without thinking about the camera, I grab a Leica M over any of my Nikon or Leica SLRs, not to speak of the EVF junk out there which completely lacks a natural connection between the lens and your brain. Stick with a Leica RF and shoot with it and you get it. If you don't get the spark that you like it, sell it as fast as you can and get whatever other camera works out for you - nothing wrong in not liking a Leica RF after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 31, 2014 Share #371 Posted August 31, 2014 How about a camera with an Automatic Decisive Moment Detector on a self-driven low-level drone. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted September 1, 2014 Share #372 Posted September 1, 2014 Can you list a few full frame dslr's weigh less than the 680 grams "heavy" M240?....., My main wish for the next Leica M: 3500 euro price tag. Never going to happen I guess... :roll eyes: Oh, histogram based on the raw file would be fantastic! Nikon Df is lighter, iirc. I agree and the raw based histogram is in my wish list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted September 1, 2014 Share #373 Posted September 1, 2014 I wish the new M to be a rangefinder with a bright hybrid viewfinder. And I want a new MATE 35-75mm. The rest, shall be reasonably modern. Did I mentioned that I want the new M being slim again, with protruding mount, if it is necessary. ?!?!?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted September 1, 2014 Share #374 Posted September 1, 2014 Nikon Df weighs 710 grams body only. nice camera though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 1, 2014 Share #375 Posted September 1, 2014 Took me only a month or so to get RF focus I don't actively comment in threads but I find some folks comments that RF is no good for children bizarre I shoot all the time This is a fast moving child at f1.4 or f2, I forget Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted September 2, 2014 Share #376 Posted September 2, 2014 I have zero problems focusing with a rangefinder. Even doing follow-focusing wide open at f/1.4 or f/0.95 on a moving subject (running from or toward me) while snapping away is mostly not an issue, as long as both the lens and rangefinder are properly calibrated. My point was simply: Focus and recompose is not 100% accurate. It just isn't. Human beings are not mechanically perfect and precise tools, and that's how things are. If we had the choice of using LV or the EVF and moving the focus selection box and precisely manually focusing without the need for recomposing, we would actually get more accurate focus overall in critical situations where recomposing is currently necessary. Demonstration of what I'm talking about: That functionality exists on mostly every Live View or EVF capable camera on the market, and is very convenient, especially with fast glass. And it's a functionality that is purely implemented in software, so there's no reason for the M240 to not support this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 2, 2014 Share #377 Posted September 2, 2014 Short of a hard-wired connection between your brain and the camera, so the camera knows what you want to focus on, AF is not 100% accurate either. In some circumstances AF is more accurate; in others RF/MF is - just depends on what you want to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted September 2, 2014 Share #378 Posted September 2, 2014 That functionality exists on mostly every Live View or EVF capable camera on the market, and is very convenient, especially with fast glass. Yes, I trust that most of us are familiar with the concept. As far as I can see we're speaking about a trade off. While one is fiddling with the controls to move the point where the focus is to be determined, others have the result in the box which is good enough for their purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colint544 Posted September 2, 2014 Share #379 Posted September 2, 2014 I think it's fair to say that rangefinder focusing is simply different to other systems. It takes longer to master than, say, DSLR autofocus but, for me, it's quicker (especially in poor light), and much more satisfying than fiddling around with those little red focus points in the viewfinder. Regarding the robustness of the rangefinder system, I'm unlucky enough to have had my M Monochrom hit the deck twice. First time, it was accidentally pushed off a table onto a concrete floor, second time the strap failed and it slid off my shoulder onto a hardwood floor. The focusing is still absolutely spot-on. Both times, I was sure the finder would be out of whack. I couldn't even find a mark on the body or lens. I came away with the conclusion that the camera is more robust than I expected it to be. Possibly I was just very lucky. As for future developments in the M, there's really little I'd ask for in a future M Monochrom. I'm awaiting the next incarnation with mild interest. The current one feels super special, and I adore both the user experience, and the stunning images it can create. I'm curious as to how much better it can get. It'll need to be mind-blowingly good, and if it is, that's something rather exciting. Cheers all, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 2, 2014 Share #380 Posted September 2, 2014 For the record modern DSLR MF is slow and painful and rubbish really (many CSCs make a better hack of it). The old style Nikon and Canon SLR split image manual focus was much easier but still not as good as RF MF IMHO, of which the M240 implementation is by far the best I have used Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.