ModernMan Posted October 28, 2013 Share #101 Posted October 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just shut up. Have u even used or tried an m5 ? Hmmm... if I put you on my ignore list I'll miss your articulate reasoning. What to do? Oh well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 28, 2013 Posted October 28, 2013 Hi ModernMan, Take a look here What do you want in the next digital M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaques Posted October 28, 2013 Share #102 Posted October 28, 2013 hmm, whislt the M5 takes the same good images any other M can take- and is OK to use- it was one ugly duckling and a big failure. Its total abandonment - and the reversion to the classic M3 form- is testimony to that fact. back to topic: I want the the new M to have the things the current one should have had: 1) Little frames around the RF window like on an M3. Stops most smudging and protects the glass!! 2) A flash cable synch port on the body of the camera: not in the hand grip! Can't use the EVF and flash- so stupid! On my M9 I could use the flash and Visoflex- only after getting an expensive custom built cable- on the M240 it seems I just won't be able to do it at all. This is really annoying to me- and soemthing Leica should have incorporated into all their digital M's. 3) Proper video out- and while they are at it- proper audio in and out- on the body - it is absurd that you can't use the EVF if you use the Leica Microphone. Even if they had to offer an alternate baseplate for this it would be better than the current total cludge... 4) Video button to be Customizable button Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcg Posted October 28, 2013 Share #103 Posted October 28, 2013 Just shut up. Have u even used or tried an m5 ? I don't see why there is any conflict here. One person points out that the camera was a design failure and tended to be disliked by a significant number of potential Leica customers. Another person points out that he was not part of that constituency and that he bought the camera and thinks very highly of it. Where is the disagreement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted October 28, 2013 Share #104 Posted October 28, 2013 Thanks for your response Modern Man. We are not in disagreement. The M5 was revolutionary in many ways. It took another 13 years to get TTL lightmetering in an M4 sized body in the M6. And less informative than the M5 at that. But the M5 was too much for the rather traditional Leica clientele. And not a marketing success. A sad lesson that Leica has learned from. And is learning even today. Just look at the brouhaha over live view and the movie button. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted October 28, 2013 Share #105 Posted October 28, 2013 I really enjoyed the original topic: the NEXT digital M, and what we would like from it and which direction we're hoping Leica to go with it. Personally I hope Leica will acknowledge the competition in the full frame camera field and position the next M accordingly: - focus on improving rangefinder-ergonomics - focus on simplicity with shorter settings-lists - focus on smaller size - focus on price (not really something Leica is known for, but hey the competition is knocking on the door) - focus on keeping up to date with image quality And instead of doing things half-way I hope Leica will either do things properly or not at all. The way video is working now for example, I would prefer them to just not have it on the M. Another option would be to really make work of the idea of having two camera-lines. One for the luddites/purists (the Monochrom is such an awesome example of this) and one for the "throw everything and the sink at the camerafeatures and just see what sticks. If you don't like a feature, just don't use it" people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted October 28, 2013 Share #106 Posted October 28, 2013 I would be very happy with a model based on the M240 without video capabilities, more definition, state of the art evf. No more and no less Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
J12 Posted October 29, 2013 Share #107 Posted October 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The most important thing I'd really like to see in the next digital M is a cutting edge image sensor that's technologically ahead of the curve and justifies the cost of the camera. Leica lenses are known as being some of the very best, their imaging sensors should be too. This was my biggest issue when contemplating the purchase of an M240. I bought my M9 brand new several years ago as it was the first full frame digital rangefinder, but decided against purchasing the M240 primarily based on the aesthetic quality of the many images I have seen. I find it difficult to get over the waxy look of images produced by the M240, particularly when people are the subject of the photo. I might have compromised had the increase in ISO been a significant jump over the M9, but it wasn't and the camera already appears technologically dated and about several years behind the majority of digital cameras on the market. I have no objection to the inclusion of video or other features that expand the utility of the camera. It's a digital camera, so should be approached as such. I think the current feature set of the M240 looks well considered and balanced, but just needs better implementation and to mature as a product. (All the issues with the M240 are well documented on the internet.) I know the M9 isn't perfect either, but between shooting that and my M7 I think I can get on fine until I see a new digital camera that really warrants consideration. I'm sure they'll get there eventually, but in the meantime I have spent some of the money I had allocated for the M240 on another lens and more film. It's more effort, but I find film yields very pleasing results and it's a welcome relief to step out of the digital upgrade cycle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted October 29, 2013 Share #108 Posted October 29, 2013 If the M supported bulb exposure of up to 30 minutes (longer would be even better), it might tip me over the edge into buying one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted October 29, 2013 Share #109 Posted October 29, 2013 Here is what I really want to see in the next M A small detonator built inside the body to automatically explode in the face of anyone that wants an articulating screen ,GPS , and Bluetooth in their next M God forbid, no more such random rambling. I don't want TSA to have a direct link to Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffry Abt Posted October 29, 2013 Share #110 Posted October 29, 2013 Is not the more robust size of the M240 due in part to the need to cope with other lens like the Leica R lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcbo Posted October 29, 2013 Share #111 Posted October 29, 2013 For the moment I'm perefctly happy with my M as it is. In view however of the lack of availability of a good apo R 180 mm lens on the market I would suggest it is high time that Leica comes out with a M Apo 180 mm ( or 210 mm) lens. One that is not too heavy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #112 Posted October 29, 2013 Ta - but for instance, will people who are trying to buy in to the M system for the first time see the 240 as a way of doing so or will they prefer to go for an M9? It really depends on their finances more than anything else. Why would a newbie want to buy a 2009 M when there is a 2013 M available. If I had few finances I would buy the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #113 Posted October 29, 2013 To the OP's original question. I really do not care what the next M will look like and be like. Is all I would like is for Leica to release working copies within say 60 days of announcement (they did this in less time with the Vario) and ALSO produce accessories rapidly enough so we do not have to wait 14 months from introduction for simple R-M adapters and hand grips and the like. Maybe less P&S models would help accomplish this task. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernMan Posted October 29, 2013 Share #114 Posted October 29, 2013 For the moment I'm perefctly happy with my M as it is.In view however of the lack of availability of a good apo R 180 mm lens on the market I would suggest it is high time that Leica comes out with a M Apo 180 mm ( or 210 mm) lens. One that is not too heavy. Now that is a fine idea indeed. And perhaps they should also re-issue some of the other great Leica R lenses (of course we can debate which they are elsewhere, but 28-90 comes to mind) in an M-mount. Presumably such a lens(es) would not be rangefinder coupled, but would rely on EVF focus aids. (Although I did see a prototype 180 M rangefinder coupled from the Midland plant sell on eBay a few years ago for 3000-4000.) Also, presumably the mounts could be marginally more compact than the original R versions since auto diaphragm and ROM (which can be complex in zooms) would also not be required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 29, 2013 Share #115 Posted October 29, 2013 There are so very many lenses they could come out with as M lenses the options are staggering. Yes, one longish M and one real wide M would be terrific. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efreed2754 Posted October 30, 2013 Share #116 Posted October 30, 2013 Would like an M1 reincarnated. For those relative newbies, it would be an M without view, or rangefinder, perhaps with in EVF. Should be less expensive than M and serve to do close ups, teles and bellows work to accompany M for rangefinder lenses. Realize might be more like some EVIL cameras but I know of at least one person who would buy...assuming priced under $5,000 Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 30, 2013 Share #117 Posted October 30, 2013 +1 for that. That would b a good second body Evf only m priced say 3500 dollars great build quality but with a viewfinder not LCD screen only throw in a nice evf introduced witha couple of zooms actually more like long tri Elmer's. 90-135-180 range finder coupled would be a winner You will never see a 90-135-180 rangefinder coupled lens, since the 135 APO-Telyt is already really hard to focus accurately with the rangefinder, even according to Leica you should stop it down 2 stops... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efreed2754 Posted October 30, 2013 Share #118 Posted October 30, 2013 Hi jip. There would be no rangefinder, no viewfinder etc. Google M1 to see how it worked. To see and focus would use EVF like object. Original screw mount Leica's were I, II and IIIs sold at same time. I's had no view or rangefinders and were designed for scientific pursuits like bellows, teles, copying etc, using Visoflex and a range of adapters which converted rangefinders into reflex cameras long before a reflex was born. IIs had both but no slow shutter speeds (below 30s or so) if recall correctly to be less expensive. Only IIIs had all speeds, and view and rangefinders. Believe a IIIf with 50 lens cost close to $400, pretty close to a new car in the early 1950s. When Ms came out started with M3 (like IIIf and then IIIg), and later M1 per above. Leica's have such an unbelievable history as a cutting edge firm with Germanic like build! Go figure. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 30, 2013 Share #119 Posted October 30, 2013 Hi jip. There would be no rangefinder, no viewfinder etc. Google M1 to see how it worked. To see and focus would use EVF like object. Original screw mount Leica's were I, II and IIIs sold at same time. I's had no view or rangefinders and were designed for scientific pursuits like bellows, teles, copying etc, using Visoflex and a range of adapters which converted rangefinders into reflex cameras long before a reflex was born. IIs had both but no slow shutter speeds (below 30s or so) if recall correctly to be less expensive. Only IIIs had all speeds, and view and rangefinders. Believe a IIIf with 50 lens cost close to $400, pretty close to a new car in the early 1950s. When Ms came out started with M3 (like IIIf and then IIIg), and later M1 per above. Leica's have such an unbelievable history as a cutting edge firm with Germanic like build! Go figure. Ed I knew about the M1 and the older camera's but read what I quoted, he is talking about a rangefinder coupled lens. Thats what I commented on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted October 30, 2013 Share #120 Posted October 30, 2013 Why not direct WiFi access from the new M with the posibility to send smaller jpg files direct to Facebook, Twitter, Flickr etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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