XVario still makes sense

[indie]

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Vettran, I too returned my XVario, though I did for a refund.

 

I struggled mightily trying to get a grip on the focusing issues. I have owned an X1 since 2010 and a Digilux 2 prior to that and absolutely thought the XVario would be a fit for me. My real name is Paula so I was doubly sure! Sadly, even the XVario pictures that were in focus just seemed to be missing that Leica warm quality. I am not a camera guru so having to consider so many thoughts while taking a picture just seemed too much for me. I love simplicity.

 

My XVario struggles kind of reminded me of standing in a golf tee box with a few simple swing thoughts in your head and your husband adds four more things like, don't worry about the water on your left, aim just right of that pine tree in the distance, keep your head down and don't forget follow through. Well, that just spells disaster for me. For my purposes of quick candid life shots with nature mixed in there were way too many "focus" thoughts needed for the XVario.

 

I will just keep shooting with my X1 and Digilux 2 hopefully NOT waiting for Godot!

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[barjohn]

I can empathize with each of you. There are things that are really great about the camera. I love the way the manual focus operates with a distance scale and stops, I really like the internal zoom, no big canon ratcheting out, and I find the lens sharpness superb (when it nails focus). The dials for shutter speed and aperture and easy to set ISO are all great features. These are all things Leica got right and the body is beautiful with a nice quality feel.

 

Almost everything that is wrong with the camera is firmware related and with attention to fixing these issues it could be a really great camera despite its slow lens.

 

But an AF camera that can't consistently and quickly auto focus is a serious issue that can't be ignored. The lack of DOF information means zone focusing is difficult to use. Simple things are just plain irritating. For example, no image number in every info position, only when you have the tiny image does it tell you what number you are seeing..huh? How dumb is that? Can't change images while holding magnification to compare focus either. How about having to go into the menu to change exposure mode? No fluorescent presets for WB. Camera doesn't tell you what ISO will be selected on auto ISO. The list goes on & on. These are dumb simple things that could easily be fixed and should be fixed. So we hear anything from Leica? Hell NO! One other big irritation is that magnification after 8x (i.e. 16x) is worthless. The image is so grainy that you can't use it to determine focus accuracy. Finally, the EVF should be addressed.

[Guest]

X-Vario macht sinn.

my first sample images >>> Flickr: kmhb2011's Photostream

 

br kmhb

[papimuzo]

Very good, even more with a dumb camera...

 

The proof is in the pudding. Congratulations, thanks to share.

[symmetron]

KMBH,

 

Very nice shots.

 

It occurred to me when viewing your photos that my concerns with the XV have not been in "good" lighting situations such as the lighting in your posted shots. Most of the auto-focusing issues I've experienced have been with poor or challenging lighting. Possibly just the physics of the camera, lens, focusing system, etc. Not sure. Could it be that the XV is basically a camera best, or only suited for good lighting conditions? Don't know.

 

Have you taken any photos in poor lighting? If so, what has been your experience regarding focusing?

[barjohn]

In my case, I have seen more missed shots in what I consider very good lighting and fewer misses in indoor or poor lighting.

[onceuponatime]

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Re: AF.

 

AFAIK lens and body need AF motor for fast AF alongside phase detect AF.

Futhermore the larger the senseor the more tougher to get faster contrast detect AF.

 

Thus for instance Olympus M43 which had contrast detect have slower AF than the M43 which had hybrid phrase detect (EP5, EM5, EM1).

Likewise Fuji X100, XPro1, XE1 all have contrast detect, thus are slower to AF than X100s and upcoming XE2 both of which have hybrid phase detect.

 

Additionaly AFAIK it is the recent primes in M43 which focust fastest, the zooms are still fairly slow, same with Fuji X zoom.

[larsv]

I have had a large number of cameras from different brands, both system and dslr. No system camera beats a serious dslr re AF. I have fuji x100s, x pro 1, leica x2, DLux5, DLux4. They all have their own problems with AF. None comes close to the accuracy of a dslr AF.

I have played with a X Vario. In different circumstances high contrast, low contrast, daylight and dark. I don't think it performed better or worse than any of the others. My suggestion: go out and shoot pictures rather than just talking about it or why you could not get a shot.

 

If you don't want an excuse to miss a shot buy a high end slr or a M.

[michaelbrenner]

X-Vario macht sinn.

my first sample images >>> Flickr: kmhb2011's Photostream

 

br kmhb

 

My favorite is the harbor shot (2nd pic). Lots of color and depth.

[Guytou]

Beautiful photos and that of the port is also my preferred !

 

Guy

[Ivan Muller]

I agree. , and if you don’t mind the hideous styling,

 

...of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I (I suppose here I am the only one) actually find it rather nice looking ...and those specs just bowl me over...and even if the shutter is just as loud asmy dslr it would be fine...and just as useable as my dslr in the 'street'...and arent those round little lenshoods for the 35 and 50 are just so cool !

[wlaidlaw]

With alternatives of the Olympus EP-5, Fuji XE-2 and Sony A7/A7R to choose from, I feel you would now have to be a very, very committed Leicaphile to opt for the X-Vario. Too little, too late and too expensive for what you get is my view. If Leica can't sell to me, who is a died in the wool Leica man for 50+ years, I think that future sales prospects for this particular camera, may not look too bright.

 

As soon as the X-Vario came out, I thought they had got it wrong from a sales POV. The big seller would have been a beautifully made μ4/3rd's. As they are a member of the 4/3rds consortium, there would have been no impediment to them doing so. That I would have bought, rather than the EP-5, I did buy, as a lightweight/less valuable alternative to my M's, after I saw what the X-Vario was.

 

Wilson

[Guest]

KMBH,

 

Very nice shots.

 

It occurred to me when viewing your photos that my concerns with the XV have not been in "good" lighting situations such as the lighting in your posted shots. Most of the auto-focusing issues I've experienced have been with poor or challenging lighting. Possibly just the physics of the camera, lens, focusing system, etc. Not sure. Could it be that the XV is basically a camera best, or only suited for good lighting conditions? Don't know.

 

Have you taken any photos in poor lighting? If so, what has been your experience regarding focusing?

 

hello, I'll answer tomorrow.

 

br kmhb

[tompoes]

With alternatives of the Olympus EP-5, Fuji XE-2 and Sony A7/A7R to choose from, I feel you would now have to be a very, very committed Leicaphile to opt for the X-Vario. Too little, too late and too expensive for what you get is my view. If Leica can't sell to me, who is a died in the wool Leica man for 50+ years, I think that future sales prospects for this particular camera, may not look too bright.

 

As soon as the X-Vario came out, I thought they had got it wrong from a sales POV. The big seller would have been a beautifully made μ4/3rd's. As they are a member of the 4/3rds consortium, there would have been no impediment to them doing so. That I would have bought, rather than the EP-5, I did buy, as a lightweight/less valuable alternative to my M's, after I saw what the X-Vario was.

 

Wilson

 

Agree with your conclusions. The E P5 is an excellent alternative which i bought after the sale of the disappointing Leica X Vario. The E P5 is a beauty in itself with an excellent line of lenses. I tried to love the X Vario but it did not work out for me.

[Guest]

KMBH,

 

Very nice shots.

 

It occurred to me when viewing your photos that my concerns with the XV have not been in "good" lighting situations such as the lighting in your posted shots. Most of the auto-focusing issues I've experienced have been with poor or challenging lighting. Possibly just the physics of the camera, lens, focusing system, etc. Not sure. Could it be that the XV is basically a camera best, or only suited for good lighting conditions? Don't know.

 

Have you taken any photos in poor lighting? If so, what has been your experience regarding focusing?

 

VETTRAN

 

first: sorry, my answer is a google - german/english translation -

 

many thanks for your positive feedback. the evaluation of the harbor image (#2) surprised me. this photo at first I did not want to set a little strong for me because of the color reproduction. colors are probably subject to most of the subjective sensation.

 

my previous experience to short AF:

 

at about 400 photos, (about 3/4 in exterior shots 1/4 indoor), both caused by me from two real focussing errors.

first: multiple images of the same motiv. when changing from vertical to horizontal I solved without camera signal, green or red, to note that the trigger from accidentally.

second: > focussing a point > trigger halfway > camera for other image detail swung > trigger fully depressed, though I found the fokussingsound that the AF was active again. maybe have with a minimum pressure change the AF storage disabled.

 

other findings:

under very low light conditions, the AF is often not in position to provide sharp. with MF-measurement or preset distance I got along well with my motives so far.

 

I often take for landscape photos MF and center-weighted metering. otherwise one-field AF. the multi-point AF I see as the main reason for focussing errors. are the main elements of the motiv in about the same distance to the camera, then multi-point AF is ok.

for precise focusing the one field AF or spot measurement is appropriate. also applies to close and portrait photos and photos with a DOF focal point.

 

Another criticism relates to AWB, especially when shooting indoors. Recommendation: target several differently exposed areas, save the real view of the corresponding result and trigger it.

 

The XVario is not only a beautiful weather camera, there is a superb optical instrument, but you have to deal with this. the visual results of XVario remember most about my analogue photos with the minolta SRT 101, many many years ago. at that time there was no image stabilizer, no fully automatic, manual averaging measurement distance and low-intensity objective, but still excellent image results.

 

is not to say everything was better, no, but not always worse. the eye of the photographer remains crucial important. images/photos, as far as the eye can see !!!

 

br kmhb

[Peter L]

Never had a problem with this Leica Vario X , no focussing problems, no exposure problems,

the only unfocussed shots , maybe 1 out of a hundred , were my own fault for not keeping the camera steady .

 

Some individuals find and have problems with anything, not to say that some not so good Xvarios sneaked through the quality control line at Leica.

 

For me the Leica X Vario is an excellent camera , performs flawless under all kind of circumstances , from dim museum shots , bright harsh light outdoors to beautiful scenery

and my 2 fast moving labradors.

 

If this wasn't the case, this camera would have been out the door faster than you can say Leica.

[vcs700s]

Never had a problem with this Leica Vario X , no focussing problems, no exposure problems,

the only unfocussed shots , maybe 1 out of a hundred , were my own fault for not keeping the camera steady .

 

Some individuals find and have problems with anything, not to say that some not so good Xvarios sneaked through the quality control line at Leica.

 

For me the Leica X Vario is an excellent camera , performs flawless under all kind of circumstances , from dim museum shots , bright harsh light outdoors to beautiful scenery

and my 2 fast moving labradors.

 

If this wasn't the case, this camera would have been out the door faster than you can say Leica.

 

Well said Peter. Well said!

[tom0511]

For me the X-Vario also still makes sense.

 

1) I can use it now

2) The lens is not fast but one of the best midrange zooms I have used so far. We dont know yet about the Sony/Zeiss.

3) The User Interface seems much different from the Sony. Its very simple and "analog style". Not better or worse, but it fits my taste. Much more intuitive than my OMD or the NEx I once owned.

4) Very good color and tones from the sensor lens combo.

 

What more do I want from a camera that I find its fun to use and delivers excellent IQ?

 

Of course the Sony with interchngable lenses is more flexible. So if someone uses this as only system the Sony makes maybe more sense. However for a camera with interchangable lenses I would prefer a system where such lenses are available and not just letters on a road map.

Leica Fanboy? Yes. But not because of its history, but because I like the user interface and the IQ. People should look more often behind specs.

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[michaelbrenner]

For me the X-Vario also still makes sense.

 

1) I can use it now

 

...

 

Leica Fanboy? Yes. But not because of its history, but because I like the user interface and the IQ. People should look more often behind specs.

 

First, I love reason#1. What you probably meant was that the XV is available to use right now as opposed to cameras that have been announced but not released or released but are not yet available. To me what resonated was the ability to quickly use (right now, in the moment) the XV on the move (i.e. for candids). I think it was Reid Reviews which first pointed out that because aperture, shutter speed, focus, and focal length are all available to be set manually with the camera turned off and held at waist level the XV has the potential for an effective street shooter.

 

As for the "Leica Fanboy", I must admit a bit of skepticism on my part in the beginning about the Leica value proposition - right up until I got my X1 back when it first came out. That little "point and shoot" easily - and I mean easily - kept up with my Nikon F5 and came in a smaller package to boot. This meant I could take the X1 place I would never dream of taking my F5. For example, on sailing races in which I was also participating, by carrying the X1 in a belt case. This allowed my hands to be free to operate sailing controls but also having the camera at hand to take action shots of the race. And the image quality was just unbelievable. And with Lightroom, the image files were very flexible. No longer a need to be spot on with exposure or white balance. No real need for a zoom lens as I could "zoom" digitally.

 

So yes, despite the early skepticism, I too have "drunk the cool-aide". Go Leica and keep up the good work! I'm not rich, but I do not care whether Leica is expensive or not. My main concern is that Leica continues to produce the level of quality that sets the standard and still be able to make enough profit to remain a going concern, hire, retain, and inspire creative personalities and engineers, and have *lots* of budget for research and development, all the while remaining accessible to photo enthusiasts, not just the pros.

 

It would seem to me that Leica is to photography what Apple is to personal computers - they care enough about their industry to take great risks in setting new standards. Above all Leica does not appear to settle for mediocrity.

 

Now that I have gushed unabashedly about Leica (and Apple), I await the flames that are sure to follow...

[michaelbrenner]

For me the X-Vario also still makes sense.

 

 

Leica Fanboy? Yes. But not because of its history, but because I like the user interface and the IQ. People should look more often behind specs.

 

 

No doubt the user interface is one of the easiest and most intuitive I have ever used. As an example, many cameras use an EV setting on the control knob on the top plate (instead of a knob for shutter speed and another knob for aperture). For the life of me I cannot figure out how that could possibly be useful. If I need to change exposure, I will either change the aperture or shutter speed, depending upon the situation and creative effect I am looking for - no way would I ever leave that up to the camera.

 

Looking beyond the specs is very important, especially in today's fast-moving technological environment. For example, the XV comes off as having a slow lens but many of those critical of Leica have neglected to consider that ISO performance has also improved, largely negating the "slowness" of the lens.