The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[algrove]

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What others choose might not necessarily be our choice. There are plenty of choices to go around-pick your poison.

 

All digital cameras go down in price as they become aged and competition from newer cameras render them lower down the "I want it list".

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[AlanG]

Take the point of what Steve Huff is showing, don't try to make something else out of it, even he acknowledges they were difficult hand held shots and not even focused properly.

 

Steve

 

I agree with your point. But with a little foresight he could have brought some diffusion material (ExpoDisc or a piece of opalescent Plexiglass) and shot a very simple test that would illustrate the falloff and any color shift. That would be a better way to answer the question he was asking.

[250swb]

I agree with your point. But with a little foresight he could have brought some diffusion material (ExpoDisc or a piece of opalescent Plexiglass) and shot a very simple test that would illustrate the falloff and any color shift. That would be a better way to answer the question he was asking.

 

Yes he could have done that, but I have the notion he's going to cover all those bases properly when he has time to do it right and not give any false impressions from a pressured situation.

 

But intellectually all this carping about those test shots should be covered already in most peoples minds by answering my previous question, how well would the M do at 5000 ISO with a 12mm lens. Will there be any red edge? How will the basic image structure look at 5000 ISO? Will there be any blocking of colour or other features like weird white balance? I don't even have an M but I have an answer in my own mind to those questions. I'm sure others can make a similar guess as to the outcome.

 

So if they came out equal for red edge and dodgy aspects of image quality in extreme situations you can call that contest quits between the M and the A7R. Then you factor in all the other pro's and con's.

 

Steve

[Rick]

I agree with your point. But with a little foresight he could have brought some diffusion material (ExpoDisc or a piece of opalescent Plexiglass) and shot a very simple test that would illustrate the falloff and any color shift. That would be a better way to answer the question he was asking.

 

Ok, but let's look at what he did right:

 

1. He was there.

2. He actually brought a wide lens.

3. He shot high enough ISO to allow for a shutter speed to stop motion blur.

4. He did get some white in the edges on some pictures.

5. He got a memory card in the camera.

6. For beter or worse, he posted the pictures.

 

What I see in his examples is not a lot of color edges, surprising. The edges seem to have more of a problem with sharpness. I'm used to the WATE and at 16mm, it isn't very critical on focus. You get it close to the right distance setting and everything tends to look pretty sharp in a image this size. Not so for these pictures. Why? Smearing? I don't know. I don't own that 12mm of Steve's so, I don't know what to expect, but I thought it would be better.

 

I still have hope for 28, 35, 50... So far, I can't tell much from anything I have seen posted anywhere.

[Rick]

 

So if they came out equal for red edge and dodgy aspects of image quality in extreme situations you can call that contest quits between the M and the A7R. Then you factor in all the other pro's and con's.

 

Steve

 

The ISO is probably a stop better, but the rest looks terrible. The red edge doesn't look bad, though.

 

I can tell you that if you compare the 12mm on the Sony to the WATE on the M240 it isn't even close. I have the WATE, but have never seen the 12mm Voigtlander. So, I just know what it potentially could look like given I am so familiar with the M240 + WATE, and the 12mm on the Sony is not selling me.

 

Again, even though some are saying that the R lenses may not even work, I'm hopeful the longer Tele lenses will be fine. I am looking for an R camera with high resolution. Beyond that, A faster standard zoom is about all else I'd like to see and that is a long way off. This camera may not offer me enough. But, it is no doubt going to be a killer camera for those that are Sony shooters and are fine with the lenses available.

[algrove]

My only comparison is my R 15/2.8 on the M240. No vignetting that I can see and corner to corner sharpness that holds up very well. Now let's just hope that might translate to this new camera. Like everyone knows, we will only know once Lou has the camera in hand.

[k-hawinkler]

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The ISO is probably a stop better, but the rest looks terrible. The red edge doesn't look bad, though.

 

I can tell you that if you compare the 12mm on the Sony to the WATE on the M240 it isn't even close. I have the WATE, but have never seen the 12mm Voigtlander. So, I just know what it potentially could look like given I am so familiar with the M240 + WATE, and the 12mm on the Sony is not selling me.

 

Again, even though some are saying that the R lenses may not even work, I'm hopeful the longer Tele lenses will be fine. I am looking for an R camera with high resolution. Beyond that, A faster standard zoom is about all else I'd like to see and that is a long way off. This camera may not offer me enough. But, it is no doubt going to be a killer camera for those that are Sony shooters and are fine with the lenses available.

 

 

My WATE works well on M9, NEX-5N, (even NEX-7), and OMD EM-5, E-M1.

Actually the CV12 f/5.6 has a good reputation, for example here.

 

A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

 

I think I get one for my NEX-5N. That would make a nice 18 mm combo.

[steveclem]

Interesting rumor. Small form digital SLR with high ISO 16MP D4 sensor would be welcome, but not for the Leica M. It would be great for Nikon F lenses (& R after conversion).

 

If it's true it will be digital remake of the classic Nikon SLR with slap up mirror & optical viewfinder. Distance between flange and film/sensor plane is 46.5mm. Leica M lenses just don't work except for extreme close up.

 

Regarding wide M lenses on Sony A7 and A7R; Ron's conclusion - if it looks bad on A7 it will look worse on A7R.

 

I'm watching that one closely. I have a lot of legacy lenses and not enough disposable income for a M240.

[Rick]

My WATE works well on M9, NEX-5N, (even NEX-7), and OMD EM-5, E-M1.

Actually the CV12 f/5.6 has a good reputation, for example here.

 

A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

 

I think I get one for my NEX-5N. That would make a nice 18 mm combo.

 

Thanks for the link. Those CV 12 shots look great on those other cameras. But, it just looks bad on the A7/A7R pictures from Steve so, do we conclude it is the camera? Not promising for the A7/A7R. But, I still don't think we have seen anything yet that we draw conclusions about the A7/A7R from.

 

@algrove, hope you get to try one soon. Why not contact Sony and try and get one of those mentioned that are being loaned out around the country. With all the lenses you have, you'd be the perfect tester/blogger/resident cyber expert.

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks for the link. Those CV 12 shots look great on those other cameras. But, it just looks bad on the A7/A7R pictures from Steve so, do we conclude it is the camera? Not promising for the A7/A7R. But, I still don't think we have seen anything yet that we draw conclusions about the A7/A7R from.

 

@algrove, hope you get to try one soon. Why not contact Sony and try and get one of those mentioned that are being loaned out around the country. With all the lenses you have, you'd be the perfect tester/blogger/resident cyber expert.

 

 

Thanks. Of course, I agree.

[NJH]

A7/A7r - performance with WA RF lenses - FM Forums

 

The shot with the ZM 35/2 is interesting. He says its f2.8 and the exif suggests iso 200. The full 36 Mp shot looks OK to me in the centre but really awful as soon as one moves off centre. I don't believe its areas just OOF either because those areas have a weird dragged look to them. I certainly hope this isn't indicative of what we can expect.

[colonel]

Right now I already sold my m240, just right before the sony a7 was announced. Seems I made the right decision because a few people that I know are considering selling theirs as well.

 

However I already re-purchased an m9 so I will wait and see if I like the A7 in the metal. I tend to avoid buying Sony's "1st generation" products as they tend get updated really soon (the Rx1 for example). So lets wait and see..

 

These are not first generation products in that they are a development of a long product lifecycle.

The RX1 is wonderful

There is not much that would make current users upgrade

[Rick]

Karl,

 

As everyone knows I really like the M240. Specifically, what I like, in the context of us talking about WA here in these last posts about super-wide angle lenses:

 

The M240 + WATE is just the smallest compact travel system that allows a photographer to trek around the world and take the coolest pictures of the highest quality. Sony, has got their work cut out for them to eclipse the kind of things you can do in a small form factor with high quality lenses. The lenses are the thing for me.

 

You linked to some CV 12 pictures. I'm just starting to put September's month long European pictures up on my flickr site (I haven't updated it for 2-years). Specifically, the last pictures I added of Diocletian's Palace are taken with the M240 + WATE at 16mm/ISO200/f8/3.0 sec. You are welcome to click on my link below and take a look at them.

 

Rick

[edwardkaraa]

Until someone gets a fully working body with latest firmware and does a comprehensive review with native and adapted glass, I bet this thread will reach 300 pages of speculation

 

One month to go

[Camping]

Has anyone seen the following regarding the M240 and longer R lenses?

 

diglloyd blog - Leica M240: Shutter Vibration Appears to Damage Image Sharpness

[k-hawinkler]

Karl,

 

As everyone knows I really like the M240. Specifically, what I like, in the context of us talking about WA here in these last posts about super-wide angle lenses:

 

The M240 + WATE is just the smallest compact travel system that allows a photographer to trek around the world and take the coolest pictures of the highest quality. Sony, has got their work cut out for them to eclipse the kind of things you can do in a small form factor with high quality lenses. The lenses are the thing for me.

 

You linked to some CV 12 pictures. I'm just starting to put September's month long European pictures up on my flickr site (I haven't updated it for 2-years). Specifically, the last pictures I added of Diocletian's Palace are taken with the M240 + WATE at 16mm/ISO200/f8/3.0 sec. You are welcome to click on my link below and take a look at them.

 

Rick

 

 

Thanks Rick. Those are stunning shots.

I always liked your travel images, Italy, Paris...

However, these seem to be a notch above the others.

And the WATE, as your other lenses, really shine on the M240 in your hands! No doubt about it.

I really am partial to available light photography.

You have there an absolutely wonderful collection of that genre.

Very pleasing colors and great mood.

I will have to come back to your images a few more times to soak it all in.

Thanks again for the treat.

[dwbell]

Shadow couple on the bench is an awesome shot Rick.

[k-hawinkler]

Shadow couple on the bench is an awesome shot Rick.

 

Exactly! That one caught my eye as well!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Rick]

Shadow couple on the bench is an awesome shot Rick.

 

That's Linda and Me!

 

The sun was right on the horizon behind us. We just crouched like we were sitting together watching a sunset and I shot it handheld off my bent leg. And, that is the WATE again, probably at 21mm.

[dwbell]

You know that intangible thing we're always trying to put into our shots? The secret sauce?

This has that.

 

Do I need a WATE? (Face palm)