gyoung Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4421 Posted March 20, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sure, but given the Sony's sensor limitations, can you get better results with a small retrofocus design like the Voigtländer 20mm f/3.5 SL-II for a fraction of the cost? Nick And its relevant if you have the 21/2.8 already, and a bag full of other Leica rangefinder lenses too. If I was starting out from scratch I doubt I would buy the Sony either, the lenses are limited, expensive and from posts elsewhere their quality control on lenses looks dismal. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 20, 2014 Posted March 20, 2014 Hi gyoung, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest polygamer Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4422 Posted March 20, 2014 Hi, night in Berlin (SONY A7, Leica Summarit 2,5/35, f8, JPEG ooc, iso auto). The 35mm Leica Summarit is my favourite 35 on the A7. The Voigtländer Nokton 1,2/35 V1 shows the same performance from f4 on, is faster, but heavier ... We see some flares, which can happen. With the A7 I have produced only green ones up to now. In marketing one would say "The SONY A7 performs consistently" ... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2553415'>More sharing options...
gyoung Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4423 Posted March 20, 2014 So, the Leica Elmarit 2,8/21 ASPH is my best 21mm lens. You can see, how the image improves. At f8, the SONY border and corner weaknesses are gone. There is no pink bottom. The formula is simple: You take a € 1260 FF body and a € 3500 Leica lens, and - presto: you get decent results. It's not a trick - it's a SONY with a little help from a real camera company !:D:D A couple of months ago I did some 'tests' to see what the 'old-fashioned' ways could do, to have some basis for comparison. The same colour neg film in the M6ttl and the FM2, hand held, processed and scanned by their Noritsu for convenience. The subject was a distant line of trees on the riverbank near home, I did a series at max aperture down to f/8 with my Leica lenses from 50 to 21 (plus a Voigtlander 28/1.9 and 21/4), and Nikon 50/1.8, 35/2 AF, 24/2.8. I just had another look at them and, in terms of edge sharpness: 1 the Elmarit appears to be about 1 or 1.5 stops better on film than on the A7. 2 On the A7 its about the same as the 24/2.8 Nikkor is on film, 3 The 24/2.8 Nikkor seems to work quite well on the D3 in Photozone's tests, so presumably will work OK on the A7 as they both have 24mp sensors I think, (the 24/2.8 Nikkor doers NOT work so well on my D7000, possibly due to the higher pixel density, so might not work so well on the A7r. 4 In general the Nikkor and Voigtlander 20s work less well on film in my experience, and on digital in Photozone's tests, than the 24/2.8, so are unlikely to be better than the 21 Elmarit asph on the A7. 5 If you want a better 21 than the Elmarit, the only option seems to be the Voigtlander 21/1.8, unless Zeiss comes up with something good, compact and reasonable for the A7/A7r as promised, but it better be totally unlike the 21/2.8 ZF lens which is big, heavy and seems not to be any better than the Elmarit in general. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4424 Posted March 20, 2014 2 On the A7 its about the same as the 24/2.8 Nikkor is on film, 3 The 24/2.8 Nikkor seems to work quite well on the D3 in Photozone's tests, Gerry Not sure what you are quoting here Photozone tested the 24/2.8 AF D lens in 2002 on a D200 and again last year on a D7000. I can't see a D3 test and my D3 regrettably doesn't have a 24MP sensor either Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4425 Posted March 20, 2014 Actually its the D3x, which is 24mp I think? Apologies http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/551-nikkorafd2428ff Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4426 Posted March 20, 2014 Appreciate the link, is that lens running for most tested? That's three tests now!! I do have a copy I bought for next to nothing as someone had taken a pan scourer to the front element, it was replaced and re-collimated for again not a lot and is very good, if rarely used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted March 20, 2014 Share #4427 Posted March 20, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have had mine for 20+ years., and it was my favourite 'superwide', until I scraped up the money for the 21 Elmarit asph. Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted March 21, 2014 Share #4428 Posted March 21, 2014 5 If you want a better 21 than the Elmarit, the only option seems to be the Voigtlander 21/1.8, unless Zeiss comes up with something good, compact and reasonable for the A7/A7r as promised, but it better be totally unlike the 21/2.8 ZF lens which is big, heavy and seems not to be any better than the Elmarit in general. Hi, thank you for comparisons with film. An interesting angle. ad5) Many think or thought the 1,8/21 Voigtländer to be the "lens of last resort". 3D-Kraft (in a valuable contribution in the German SKF) mentioned field curvature for it, and good performance at (and from) f8. So, I will keep using the Elmarit (with less speed, and weight), and try not to give up trying to tweak the Skopar 4/21 and the Biogon 4,5/21 to deliver predictable performance with the lens correction app without the SONY Pink Bottom ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted March 21, 2014 Share #4429 Posted March 21, 2014 5 If you want a better 21 than the Elmarit, the only option seems to be the Voigtlander 21/1.8, unless Zeiss comes up with something good, compact and reasonable for the A7/A7r as promised, but it better be totally unlike the 21/2.8 ZF lens which is big, heavy and seems not to be any better than the Elmarit in general. The CV 21./1.8 is a good option, if f/1.8 is important for you (low light, option to play with shallow DOF in a near range): Bokeh Dreams from 21mm to 135mm with Sony A7 & A7R It is not so well suited for landscape / architecture even at f/8 (compared to the WATE): UPDATED: Ultra Wide Angle M-Mount Lenses THAT WORK On Sony A7R (Leica "WATE" Tri Elmar 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH and Voigtlander Ultron 21mm f/1.8 ASPH) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted March 31, 2014 Share #4430 Posted March 31, 2014 Hi, in the mountains, we had 50cm of snow last week. I tried out my Voigtländer 5,6/12, 4,5/15 and the ZEISS Distagon 4/18 with the SONY lens correction app. I was disappointed with the IQ of all of them. Only my Leica Elmarit 2,8/21 ASPH worked as expected. Therefore, in future for pictures of snowy landscapes, the only UWA I shall take is my 21 Elmarit. So, I shall travel lighter. Thank you, SONY! This can happen with the ZEISS Distagon 4/18 on the A7- pink sides: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2559989'>More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 31, 2014 Share #4431 Posted March 31, 2014 Hi, in the mountains, we had 50cm of snow last week. I tried out my Voigtländer 5,6/12, 4,5/15 and the ZEISS Distagon 4/18 with the SONY lens correction app. I was disappointed with the IQ of all of them. Only my Leica Elmarit 2,8/21 ASPH worked as expected. Therefore, in future for pictures of snowy landscapes, the only UWA I shall take is my 21 Elmarit. So, I shall travel lighter. Thank you, SONY! This can happen with the ZEISS Distagon 4/18 on the A7- pink sides: Have you tried flat field plugin of LR5 (or equivalent)? On my NEX6 and M9, I am able to use CV15 after the correction. Good enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted April 1, 2014 Share #4432 Posted April 1, 2014 Have you tried flat field plugin of LR5 (or equivalent)? On my NEX6 and M9, I am able to use CV15 after the correction. Good enough for me. Between you and me: I am a lazy guy, trying to minmize PP, making JPEGs. So, I use the SONY lens correction app, which works nicely with the Voigtländer 15 - but not in the snow. On the other hand, winter holidays are expensive. If I am not happy with my UWA/WA lens performance on the A7 in wintry conditions, I should stay at home. Thus, thanks to SONY, I can save a lot of money. Thank you SONY! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted April 1, 2014 Share #4433 Posted April 1, 2014 I can't see what the big deal is all about, are you holding an exhibition of massive enlargements? Use the UWA lenses, er sorry, 'glass' on the M9 and be happy. Picking fault with the machines perceived shortcomings will only lead to unhappiness and forum complaining. Which appears to be de rigeur sometimes. The A7/R is an absolutely superb platform to reinvigorate those old mf lenses. Hint: try the focal lengths over 28mm............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted April 1, 2014 Share #4434 Posted April 1, 2014 I can't see what the big deal is all about, are you holding an exhibition of massive enlargements? Use the UWA lenses, er sorry, 'glass' on the M9 and be happy. Picking fault with the machines perceived shortcomings will only lead to unhappiness and forum complaining.Which appears to be de rigeur sometimes. The A7/R is an absolutely superb platform to reinvigorate those old mf lenses. Hint: try the focal lengths over 28mm............. You are right, I should find work-arounds for the shortcomings of the A7. I do use lenses above 28mm, see posting #4424, above and http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other/314851-a7-r-images-leica-lenses-open-12.html Maybe, I should keep my quandaries to myself, or discuss them with my hairdresser Melanie. For a tip, she must listen, poor thing ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_S Posted April 1, 2014 Share #4435 Posted April 1, 2014 The A7/R is an absolutely superb platform to reinvigorate those old mf lenses. Hint: try the focal lengths over 28mm............. As previously hinted, try retrofocus wide-angle designs for super-wide lenses -- these give a more perpendicular ray path to the digital sensor (which the Sony requires, given its lack of optimised microlenses like those found in a Leica M digital body). Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted April 1, 2014 Share #4436 Posted April 1, 2014 I can't see what the big deal is all about, are you holding an exhibition of massive enlargements? Use the UWA lenses, er sorry, 'glass' on the M9 and be happy. Picking fault with the machines perceived shortcomings will only lead to unhappiness and forum complaining.Which appears to be de rigeur sometimes. The A7/R is an absolutely superb platform to reinvigorate those old mf lenses. Hint: try the focal lengths over 28mm............. 1 no camera is perfect 2 its important to know the limitations of your tools, thats not nitpicking. 3 We know all of them can do well at 28mm plus, but to some of us the performance with lenses shorter than that is more important than it apparently is to you. 4 the performance of retrofocus wide angles is known, and they are larger, heavier and perform less well on film than elmarit asph and heliar lenses. That they work better on digital is an oversimplification. 5 If we already own the good ones its useful to know how they work on the camera, its not helpful to be told to go and buy a retrofocus lens. Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted April 1, 2014 Share #4437 Posted April 1, 2014 My only suggestion is to buy a retro focus lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted April 2, 2014 Share #4438 Posted April 2, 2014 My only suggestion is to buy a retro focus lens. Hi, I have two retro focus lenses already, The ZEISS Distagon 4/18 and the 2,8/21 ASPH Leica Elmarit. The Distagon works nicely on the A7. Only with snow, it shows pink sides. (See above) The Elmarit is my best allrounder for 21mm. Below 21mm (with the 12 and 15 Voigtländer and the 18 ZEISS) there is unpredictability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveclem Posted April 2, 2014 Share #4439 Posted April 2, 2014 5 If we already own the good ones its useful to know how they work on the camera, its not helpful to be told to go and buy a retrofocus lens. Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Over complication is my point here, simplification can be very good indeed. My only suggestion is to buy a retro focus lens. Same here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted April 2, 2014 Share #4440 Posted April 2, 2014 Again, oversimplification, some work on some cameras but not on others. Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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