The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

[CalArts 99]

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Not surprising at all. There's no reason to advertise on a broad-based, consumer basis high-price, low-volume lenses that are sold mainly to the few companies that rent out ciné equipment to film-makers. If you do a google search for "Leica cine lenses" you'll find information on these lenses.

 

As Mitch points out, production companies rent and contract out for their equipment (including the major studios.) Leica cine lenses are 'new kids on the block' and are now adding the Summicron-C to the line (in addition to the Summilux-C) as a mid-range 'budget' series. (btw, you can download a .pdf of a Summilux-C test here: Alfonso Parra (AEC) | Press)

 

e.g., Abel Cine has a set of Leica lenses for rent, but they are normal Leica lenses that were rehoused and reworked (by the UK's Van Dieman) in a PL mount, and are not the C-line from Leica. The major lens rentals here (Los Angeles) are still the usual players: Angenieux, ARRI, Cooke, Schneider and Zeiss. Leica may gain some attraction over time, but this is a rarefied sort of market and not something that 'normal' people (i.e., photographers and hobbyists on a camera forum) are too concerned about.

 

You will find marketing by Leica in trade journals and on websites for smaller production companies (like Red users, etc..) The majors have will always their own rental channels that they turn to, like Panavision (which is a lease-only company and who have their own line of high quality of cine lenses; e.g., the Primo spherical primes and the G and E series of anamorphic lenses.) I imagine that Leica's C lens marketing will primarily be aimed at smaller and mid-sized productions (which is also why they developed the Summicron-C 'budget' line.)

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[colonel]

Rumor now has it that there will be 5 FF NEX or at least E mount cameras offered in the next 5 or 6 months. Sony is expected to be releasing 2 shortly and one (or 2?) is expected to be released possibly in October.

 

That's always been Sony's problem with the Nex, plenty of bodies, hardly any lenses and even the best are so so

[naturephoto1]

That's always been Sony's problem with the Nex, plenty of bodies, hardly any lenses and even the best are so so

 

Zeiss is designing at least the original lenses. 3 are scheduled for release to begin with and I believe that Zeiss has its hand in the design of future lenses.

 

Rich

[colonel]

 

Why? Well as with every other M type body in these digital times they too seem to me to suffer from far too many inexcusable issues. Sorry to say it but I only have two M9's for instance because I would not dare place my trust in going out with just one, whereas I would have no such qualms about relying entirely 100% on a single Pro level Nikon or Canon, or as regards to this thread, one full frame Sony (or Fuji).

 

 

I have been fine with 1 M9, but for sure I would have two cameras on any pro shoot, particularly after a Canon that froze on the "err" error.

 

However Leica is a "cottage industry" and that's part of its charm and allure. I'd hate it if they gave up bodies and actually think the handling, build and IQ of the M9 is sublime.

 

Leica is very distinctive, love or hate it, and I find it quizzical that some people don't see that. Sony will always be Sony. People who like Leica will continue to like it.

 

There is a small cadre of DSLR émigrés who came to Leica mainly due to size and really still hanker after the DSLR electro flow. I am sure some of them will try out the Sony FF Nex if/when it comes out.

[derleicaman]

Well folks, I did a little looking around on the net last night and I think I have the answer about how well the NEX FF will do with Leica lenses. Sony introduced a full frame video camera in E mount last fall called the NEX VG 900. A little searching revealed the following.

 

The first site compared the NEX VG900 vs. an M 240 in some lab tests using Leica lenses. I think this will open your eyes a bit!

 

A Full-Frame Sony NEX Put to the Test

 

The second link here is to a flickr account of a fellow using a Sony NEX VG900 as a still camera with a number of Leica lenses in his travels around the world. This is real life stuff guys! Lenses used include 35 Lux ASPH, 75/2 Summicron, 21 SEM, 15 Heliar, 135 Zeiss ZM and maybe a few others I can't remember. Believe me this will blow you away and I am convinced the NEX FF will be a very useable camera with our M lenses with zero issues with red edge.

 

Just married | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Latest word on the Sony Alpha Rumors site is that they will release 2 FF cameras in October. Both will be at 24 MP. One less expensive than the other with the more expensive on coming in at around $ 3K. Supposedly very like the NEX 7. I would be happier if one of them had the control layout of the NEX 6.

 

We should know in a few weeks time, but in the meantime, check out the links and I think you will be very pleasantly surprised!

[naturephoto1]

Well folks, I did a little looking around on the net last night and I think I have the answer about how well the NEX FF will do with Leica lenses. Sony introduced a full frame video camera in E mount last fall called the NEX VG 900. A little searching revealed the following.

 

The first site compared the NEX VG900 vs. an M 240 in some lab tests using Leica lenses. I think this will open your eyes a bit!

 

A Full-Frame Sony NEX Put to the Test

 

The second link here is to a flickr account of a fellow using a Sony NEX VG900 as a still camera with a number of Leica lenses in his travels around the world. This is real life stuff guys! Lenses used include 35 Lux ASPH, 75/2 Summicron, 21 SEM, 15 Heliar, 135 Zeiss ZM and maybe a few others I can't remember. Believe me this will blow you away and I am convinced the NEX FF will be a very useable camera with our M lenses with zero issues with red edge.

 

Just married | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Latest word on the Sony Alpha Rumors site is that they will release 2 FF cameras in October. Both will be at 24 MP. One less expensive than the other with the more expensive on coming in at around $ 3K. Supposedly very like the NEX 7. I would be happier if one of them had the control layout of the NEX 6.

 

We should know in a few weeks time, but in the meantime, check out the links and I think you will be very pleasantly surprised!

 

To the best of my knowledge SAR never stipulated as to the number of MP the new Sony NEX FF cameras would have. They had indicated that Sony was testing new 24MP, 32MP, and 36MP sensors. So, at this point we do not know which version will be released. We do know that both cameras to be released shortly will both have the same new sensor. But, do not be surprised if the cameras are released with the 32MP or even possibly the 36MP sensor versions.

 

Also, as a correction to my report earlier, Sony is expecting to release 3 E mount FF cameras in the next 5 months, not 5 model cameras. Sorry for my error.

 

Rich

[Guest malland]

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...The second link here is to a flickr account of a fellow using a Sony NEX VG900 as a still camera with a number of Leica lenses in his travels around the world...Believe me this will blow you away...

What blows me away is how dismal the color rendition is compared to that of the M9.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Tristes Tropiques [WIP]

[jaapv]

I had not expected the M to be that far ahead.

[naturephoto1]

What blows me away is how dismal the color rendition is compared to that of the M9.

 

—Mitch/Paris

 

Tristes Tropiques [WIP]

 

 

I had not expected the M to be that far ahead.

 

First of all the NEX VG900 that has FF NEX sensor is a camcorder. It is not known to perform that well for stills. It is not the upcoming FF NEX camera (s). Secondly, not knowing the NEX VG900 I have no idea as to the RAW processing software packages that work with the camera and of course we have no idea as to what the original RAW files looked like or the Post Processing of these files.

 

As to the new soon to be released NEX FF camera (s) they will have a new sensor and there may well be no software that will read the RAW files correctly upon release. Again, Post Processing of digital files is most important as you know, though some cameras and situations will require more or less Post Processing than others.

 

Rich

[dwbell]

What blows me away is how dismal the color rendition is compared to that of the M9.

 

In the digital age, how on earth does one start to objectively compare 'colour rendition'?

Which profile?

Which raw converter?

Which user preset?

Pushed from 640 or native ISO?

 

There are SO many variables it's a subjective "don't like what I see" call at the very best isn't it?

 

I profiled my M9 to be more, well, Astia I suppose. So to get the higher DR M240 to match that has been relatively pain free. Both 'renditions' are light years a part from your crushed black night work. Incomparable really. Which is my point.

[Guest malland]

dwbell, as far as the Sony NEX VG900 pictures linked above I don' think that my statement is contentious. For differences in color rendition between the M9 and M240, my judgment is subjective based on work I see on the web. But it's the subjective aspect that matters. The best I can do is to quote two statements that I agree with.

 

fofografz writes: I remain unconvinced about the M240 image qualities and have passed up two opportunities to secure one from my dealer. This time I'll let others sort it out first ... or replace my M9 with another if the M240 never meets my subjective needs;

 

and charkesphoto99 writes: I do think that the higher iso's on the M9 are vastly underrated, and in general much prefer the image quality of the M9 to the M240. The M9 (and Monochrom by de facto) imo are truly two of the most unique digital cameras out there when it comes to the quality of the image. Not the "best" on paper but they have a look,an "umami" as the Japanese might say, that no other 35mm digital camera, comes close to.

 

On your view on my night pictures, I've no idea what your photography is like, since you don't list a website or a link to where your photo can be seen; so I'm not too excited.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Tristes Tropiques [WIP]

[jaapv]

First of all the NEX VG900 that has FF NEX sensor is a camcorder. It is not known to perform that well for stills. It is not the upcoming FF NEX camera (s). Secondly, not knowing the NEX VG900 I have no idea as to the RAW processing software packages that work with the camera and of course we have no idea as to what the original RAW files looked like or the Post Processing of these files.

 

As to the new soon to be released NEX FF camera (s) they will have a new sensor and there may well be no software that will read the RAW files correctly upon release. Again, Post Processing of digital files is most important as you know, though some cameras and situations will require more or less Post Processing than others.

 

Rich

Yes, and? This is presented as a comparison.

[naturephoto1]

Yes, and? This is presented as a comparison.

 

It is not indicative as to what we will quite possibly see from the release of the FF NEX cameras which was the original part of the thread discussion if memory serves.

 

Rich

[dwbell]

dwbell, as far as the Sony NEX VG900 pictures linked above I don' think that my statement is contentious. For differences in color rendition between the M9 and M240, my judgment is subjective based on work I see on the web. But it's the subjective aspect that matters. The best I can do is to quote two statements that I agree with.

 

fofografz writes: I remain unconvinced about the M240 image qualities and have passed up two opportunities to secure one from my dealer. This time I'll let others sort it out first ... or replace my M9 with another if the M240 never meets my subjective needs;

 

and charkesphoto99 writes: I do think that the higher iso's on the M9 are vastly underrated, and in general much prefer the image quality of the M9 to the M240. The M9 (and Monochrom by de facto) imo are truly two of the most unique digital cameras out there when it comes to the quality of the image. Not the "best" on paper but they have a look,an "umami" as the Japanese might say, that no other 35mm digital camera, comes close to.

 

On your view on my night pictures, I've no idea what your photography is like, since you don't list a website or a link to where your photo can be seen; so I'm not too excited.

 

—Mitch/Paris

Tristes Tropiques [WIP]

 

I don't think it's contentious either Mitch. My point was that 'colour rendition' is totally subjective, your comments and the two quotes concur with that. We are in agreement.

 

It's like "too salty", or "too warm".

[rosuna]

It is coming...

 

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-the-sony-nex-ff-will-be-displayed-at-photoplus-in-nyc/

[leicatraveller]

According to Sonyalpharumors website the NEX-FF photocamera project will come within 2 months.

In light of the quality expressed by the Sony RX1®, is there a possibility that - from a technical perspective - the new NEX-FF will impact on Leica affecting the new M240 in terms of overall image quality and sales (being offered at a more affordable price)?

 

FF Nex will be almost without lens, and if rumors are correct a 35mm f2.8 will be nothing exeptional compared to the 35mm F2 sonnar on RX1, that is designed around body/sensor, and i m sure its even smaller then the F2.8 for NEX FF

 

not excited at all

[AlanG]

I don't think it's contentious either Mitch. My point was that 'colour rendition' is totally subjective, your comments and the two quotes concur with that. We are in agreement.

 

It's like "too salty", or "too warm".

 

I agree but FWIW will say that after using a Nex 6 under a variety of lighting sources, I feel its auto white balance (as my starting point with raw images) is very very good.

 

Regarding a FF body, I think the grip needs to be larger than on the Nex 6 if heavier lenses are going to be used on it.

[jaapv]

FF Nex will be almost without lens, and if rumors are correct a 35mm f2.8 will be nothing exeptional compared to the 35mm F2 sonnar on RX1, that is designed around body/sensor, and i m sure its even smaller then the F2.8 for NEX FF

 

not excited at all

Well, they will have to introduce a complete new lens line, which will take some time. I would not be surprised to see a quite extensive electronic integration of the lenses to correct in firmware.

 

What that means for the performance with third-party lenses remains to be seen.

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[k-hawinkler]

Having used R lenses on NEX-5N and NEX-7 to my satisfaction I am really looking forward to use R lenses on a SONY NEX FF as well.

[Thomas Chen]

Having used R lenses on NEX-5N and NEX-7 to my satisfaction I am really looking forward to use R lenses on a SONY NEX FF as well.

 

How about Leica makes a mirrorless M with built-in EVF to counter?