gyoung Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2121 Posted November 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not at all. When ISO is practically noise free up to 3200 (6400?) you can set shutter for motion or hand shake blur (2x focal min at 36mp), set aperture for creative reasons and still cover a huge range of exposure with ISO shooting up and down as required. In this mode I ride my aperture ring based on distance, sure at 2m my 50lux will give me a sharp face, but in closer I need to be up at 2.8 to avoid 'only sharp eyes', shutter is set, ISO is riding as required. Brilliant. New school for sure, many film shooters can't let go of ISO not being fixed. Well its true you never stop learning, being used to film ways I had never thought of such a way of working. Thanks! I need to delve further into the menus on my digtal camera and experiment! Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 Hi gyoung, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dwbell Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2122 Posted November 13, 2013 Well its true you never stop learning, being used to film ways I had never thought of such a way of working. Thanks! I need to delve further into the menus on my digtal camera and experiment! Gerry Hah, good for you! It gets better. Imagine the Sony sensor (amazing resolution and bleeding edge high ISO) with the best in body image stabilisation out there. Now combine that with Lightroom (Adobe) or Nik's (Google) latest noise reduction algorithms and even the new shake reduction software (have you seen it in action? Amazing!) and you see where an ISO-less world is not far away. All thanks to technology, to forward thinking companies. Look who I listed - Sony, Adobe, Google! Truly exciting times for photographers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2123 Posted November 13, 2013 ...how do these compare with NEX7 files you must know well? The ARW files I downloaded do not open in LR4, but opened in Sony's Image Data converter. DSC01646 looks initially impressive. 1600 ISO with an unknown lens in the data (apparently it was either the Leica Macro-Elmarit-R 1:2.8/60 + Leica Vario-Emarit-R 1:2.8-4.5/28-90 Asph...I'm guessing the second one). I don't know if "in camera" NR is turned on or off. When I opened the Noise reduction tab in Sony's RAW converter, it was set to AUTO. Selecting OFF, there is color noise, and a lot MORE detail. It's not quite noiseless. High ISO is awesome, but not at the trade off of sharpness or lens character OR worse yet blurred textures. You might as well use the kit lens. I did not make any other corrections to the pic, just opened and turned the NR from AUTO to OFF. I hope these screen shots do what I'm seeing justice, both at 100%. Is it awful? no. Is it fixable? sure. It's definitely not set it on ISO 6400 or 12800 and everything will be fine. As someone who uses a NEX 6 all the time, turning it up above 1600 is too much of a trade off for my taste. Letting the camera apply image softening "NR" automatically is something the control freak in me just cannot deal with. DFine in Lightroom 5 might make this better... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2464630'>More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2124 Posted November 13, 2013 2 more. These are very similar to NEX 6 files that I have worked with at this ISO. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2464654'>More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2125 Posted November 13, 2013 at 3200, same conditions as above. AUTO Noise reduction to OFF Noise reduction. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2464667'>More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2126 Posted November 13, 2013 The ARW files I downloaded do not open in LR4, but opened in Sony's Image Data converter. DSC01646 looks initially impressive. 1600 ISO with an unknown lens in the data (apparently it was either the Leica Macro-Elmarit-R 1:2.8/60 + Leica Vario-Emarit-R 1:2.8-4.5/28-90 Asph...I'm guessing the second one). I don't know if "in camera" NR is turned on or off. When I opened the Noise reduction tab in Sony's RAW converter, it was set to AUTO. Selecting OFF, there is color noise, and a lot MORE detail. It's not quite noiseless. High ISO is awesome, but not at the trade off of sharpness or lens character OR worse yet blurred textures. You might as well use the kit lens. I did not make any other corrections to the pic, just opened and turned the NR from AUTO to OFF. I hope these screen shots do what I'm seeing justice, both at 100%. Is it awful? no. Is it fixable? sure. It's definitely not set it on ISO 6400 or 12800 and everything will be fine. As someone who uses a NEX 6 all the time, turning it up above 1600 is too much of a trade off for my taste. Letting the camera apply image softening "NR" automatically is something the control freak in me just cannot deal with. DFine in Lightroom 5 might make this better... You need LR5.3RC at this point to open the files. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2127 Posted November 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) You need LR5.3RC at this point to open the files. Rich Or run them through the latest Adobe DNG converter in order to open them in LR4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2128 Posted November 13, 2013 and you see where an ISO-less world is not far away. All thanks to technology, to forward thinking companies. Look who I listed - Sony, Adobe, Google! Truly exciting times for photographers. An ISO-less world is a pitch-dark world in my understanding. Not sure what I would want to photograph in there BTW, the concept of "Auto ISO" has always existed in the film world. Shooting Tri-X at anything from 400-1250ASA frame to frame and souping in a compensating developer like Diafine still is the standard way I shoot with my M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2129 Posted November 13, 2013 Or run them through the latest Adobe DNG converter in order to open them in LR4. I just installed Adobe DNG Converter 8.2.0.94 and while it SHOULD work, I got an error message "The source folder does not contain any supported camera raw files." The A7 is not listed as a supported camera . Sony Sony DSC-RX100 II Sony A3000 (ILCE-3000) Sony NEX-5T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2130 Posted November 13, 2013 I am not remarkably familiar with the Sony Image Data Converter Software, it does allow for adjustments in just about anything you could shoot on a NEX or Alpha camera, and it's capable of exporting to PS CS5 as a TIFF. Detailed without a doubt, but hardly noise free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2131 Posted November 13, 2013 Well, I used the latest ACR, available from Adobe Labs I believe, and had no problem opening the raw files. I made a few lighting corrections in ACR but no sharpening or noise reduction in ACR. The noise visible reminds me a lot of an D800E file. Then I used Nik from CS6 proper for noise reduction and sharpening and got a very nice useable image for both the ISO 1600 and 6400 raw file. I certainly like the results and am looking forward using the A7R with my own Vario Elmarit-R 28-90/2.8-4.5 ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2132 Posted November 13, 2013 I was able to wrestle it into PS CS5, and apply some DFine to it manually as well. I'm not saying it's awful or un fixable. My point is there's a tradeoff when you use a high grade optic at 1600 or above. It's not just magically noise free out of the camera, and applying noise reduction can change the look of the lens, and the look of the lens is what we're after, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2133 Posted November 13, 2013 I just installed Adobe DNG Converter 8.2.0.94 and while it SHOULD work, I got an error message "The source folder does not contain any supported camera raw files." That's the latest official version. I was referring to the actual "latest" (beta) version, which is 8.3, available here. Sorry for the confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2134 Posted November 13, 2013 That's the latest official version. I was referring to the actual "latest" (beta) version, which is 8.3, available here. Sorry for the confusion. That totally worked. While the LR interface made knocking the initial noise down much more controllable, and was much more familiar , with no color noise reduction applied, the imported, zeroed out, DNG file still looks the same as it did before (at the unrealistic 100%, of course). I had a Sony ARW file and an Adobe DNG file with no noise reduction applied, they were both open. Unfortunately, application of the NR filter changes the look of it, to me anyway. The lens correction for the Vario-Elmarit was impressive. I'd shoot at a lower ISO, but that's just the way I like to do things. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2135 Posted November 13, 2013 I think I've not been clear. I think it will work well on the A7R. Captzoom - not sure I understand? Seems I'm muddying my own water here! I assumed the following (without having done any research): If: -Aperture is set manually. -Shutter is set manually. -ISO is set to auto. Then: -When exposure compensation is used, the only value that is manipulated by the camera is ISO. That being said, I don't use exposure compensation and have never tested this. I just assumed it was the case. Going by what you and others have said in this thread, my assumption is wrong (though it perplexes me how Exp Comp works in the above scenario). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2136 Posted November 13, 2013 For AUTO ISO, if set to manual, wouldn't there be an issue if you were using a lens adapter that had no electronic communication with the camera body? My NEX 6 wont even let you set AUTO ISO unless you're in a Program mode. Set to AUTO ISO when I use exp compensation in "A" it switches the shutter speed. When I use exp compensation in "S" it does adjust the AUTO ISO, but I'm not sure that is the most intuitive way to go about it, especially if you cannot set any limits on how high it sets itself. I'll use the Nikon for that I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2137 Posted November 13, 2013 I assumed the following (without having done any research):If: -Aperture is set manually. -Shutter is set manually. -ISO is set to auto. Then: -When exposure compensation is used, the only value that is manipulated by the camera is ISO. That being said, I don't use exposure compensation and have never tested this. I just assumed it was the case. Going by what you and others have said in this thread, my assumption is wrong (though it perplexes me how Exp Comp works in the above scenario). Yes, I'm now convinced I've muddied the waters! I think it does in fact work as you describe. But I've never used a Sony so others will be more knowledgable. Sorry for any confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2138 Posted November 13, 2013 Well, I used the latest ACR, available from Adobe Labs I believe, and had no problem opening the raw files. I made a few lighting corrections in ACR but no sharpening or noise reduction in ACR. The noise visible reminds me a lot of an D800E file. Then I used Nik from CS6 proper for noise reduction and sharpening and got a very nice useable image for both the ISO 1600 and 6400 raw file. I certainly like the results and am looking forward using the A7R with my own Vario Elmarit-R 28-90/2.8-4.5 ASPH. I posted some images here The GetDPI Photography Forums - View Single Post - A Call for RAWS. A7r, with permission from Bart de Vries whose images these are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2139 Posted November 13, 2013 Yes, I'm now convinced I've muddied the waters! I think it does in fact work as you describe. But I've never used a Sony so others will be more knowledgable. Sorry for any confusion. No worries man, I don't have experience with Sony either. Jaybob answered both of our curiosities as they apply to the NEX-6. Thanks Jay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted November 13, 2013 Share #2140 Posted November 13, 2013 I neglected to ask for permission, not out of disrespect, I just zoomed into such a small portion, I didn't even consider it. My apologies if I offended. My favorite part of the full sized 3200 ISO image, (the one with the cup) is the cup holders reflection in the computer monitor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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