thighslapper Posted February 1, 2014 Share #4261 Posted February 1, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thought you chaps might be amused to know that after dumping the A7r I have replaced it with an X-Vario .......... ..... and it is everything I hoped the A7/A7r would be .... but wasn't...... sod the extra pixels, esoteric features and ability to change lenses ..... this camera is compact, flexible, easy to use, has great AF/manual focus and produces fantastic images. As a back-up and lightweight replacement to my M's it is absolutely perfect. After 6 weeks of irritation with the A7 it took 10 minutes with this camera to put a smile back on my face .... and a desire to get out and just take photos instead of fiddling with menus and lenses. Reviews by 'experts' and technical specifications mean very little when it comes to equipment like cameras where user interaction and preferences count for so much..... as I have found to my cost ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Hi thighslapper, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chris_livsey Posted February 1, 2014 Share #4262 Posted February 1, 2014 Thought you chaps might be amused to know that after dumping the A7r I have replaced it with an X-Vario .......... ..... and it is everything I hoped the A7/A7r would be .... but wasn't...... Is that the "mini-M" that wasn't, the one with the slow lens? Just a troll, please ignore. All that really matters is that you are happy and we do sometimes need reminding "other cameras are available". If we are not happy we move on there is only so much fighting to make it work for you that is acceptable and as you say that can be a costly lesson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 2, 2014 Share #4263 Posted February 2, 2014 Anyone had luck with the C model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted February 2, 2014 Share #4264 Posted February 2, 2014 thigh slapper wanted a back-up camera only. A camera, that is dead weight in the camera bag. Or if a back-up is necessary, then a back-up for the back-up could be useful too. In the specs the environment conditions are published. They should be the measure choosing a back-up. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mixalis Posted February 2, 2014 Share #4265 Posted February 2, 2014 Is that the "mini-M" that wasn't, the one with the slow lens? Just a troll, please ignore. All that really matters is that you are happy and we do sometimes need reminding "other cameras are available". If we are not happy we move on there is only so much fighting to make it work for you that is acceptable and as you say that can be a costly lesson. As the originator of one of the tributaries to this vast merged thread, I have learned a great deal here about the A7r over the past few months. I have been using mine extensively for the past month (with Leica lenses exclusively) and I am still working on my review. I have to say I am not as positive as when I started out. In particular, it is extremely difficult to sort out the wood from the trees after reading this thread. I do like the A7r. However, I see few advantages over an M240 while there are many disadvantages (if used with third-party glass), all of which have been rehearsed ad nauseam here. It is a good choice if you do not own an M, I agree. But, I am less convinced that it makes a good second camera for the M owner. Thighslapper's comments about the X Vario in this context struck a chord with me. Since I posted my review of the XV on MacFilos.com I have heard from more and more owners who love this very underrated camera. I acquired my XV for the test but decided to keep it, largely because of that absolutely superb (if slow) lens and the M-like simplicity of the controls. It is just so easy to use and the results are extremely satisfying. I have both the Sony (with 35mm Summicron attached) and the XV sitting on the desk in front of me as I write. They are remarkable similar in size but the XV is lighter (640g compared with the Sony's 765g) . It is also more focused on simplicity, is better built and looks more handsome IMHO. On paper, of course, there is just no comparison. On the one hand we have an APS-C bridge camera with a modest and slow zoom. The A7, on the other hand, is at the bleeding edge with every bell, whistle and pixel you could wish for. In the real world, though, the XV is the camera that feels just right and is ultimately less frustrating as a convenient backup to an M. And, in common with the RX1/r, it benefits from a lens perfectly matched and tuned to the sensor. Which brings us right back to the Sony with Leica lenses.... It is worth browsing the thread on the X Vario review which can be found here. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 2, 2014 Share #4266 Posted February 2, 2014 Hi, I am afraid, we getting into deep waters ... What is a backup-camera? Anything one can take pictures with? Could be a mobile phone then. Could it also be any low-cost camera? Then, anything goes. Should it support my Leica M mount lenses (with adapters)? Then it could be MFT, APS-C, such as the SONY NEX series. Or it should support my Leica lenses with the same focal length, and same IQ, not ruling out additional functionalities. Looked at that way, my A7 is a backup for my M9, or a complementary camera, sez polygamer! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 2, 2014 Share #4267 Posted February 2, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I am afraid, we getting into deep waters ... What is a backup-camera? .... quite ........ in fact I wanted something that would do everything, be smaller and lighter than the M, have autofocus, take M lenses, fantastic image quality, have lots of useful functions, be dead easy to use, wash the dishes, take the kids to school..... etc etc etc. ie. the photographic holy grail which will probably never exist ....... in the end I want a second camera I can take on trips in case my M fails (or forget to take the battery charger ) and an alternative to an M and bag of lenses to take out when I want to travel very light ...... plus the option of AF, but without sacrificing the M image quality and 'simple complexity' that I have come to expect. A7/A7r doesn't do it for me ..... but the XV does ...... At the end of the day I've got what I was after .... by trial and error ..... which is basically what I was pointing out....... specs and tests don't even tell half the story .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 2, 2014 Share #4268 Posted February 2, 2014 Hi, a camera has lots of features the presence of which and their implementation can lead to many different selections of the individual, optimal camera. Many things enter into this, individual usage preferences, handling familiarity, functionalities, branding, etc. In a way, a second camera is like a second car. Should it be the same model, or another, different one, with different deployment options. I use several different cameras, and I would find it most difficult to say which is best, each having its individual merits. So, it boils down to the truism: it all depends ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 3, 2014 Share #4269 Posted February 3, 2014 Hi, I am afraid, we getting into deep waters ... What is a backup-camera? Well Wikipedia says this Backup camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Kidding aside... I think there is a difference between a backup camera and a "second" camera (to be mounted with lens of another focal length and used at the same time). Lets not confuse both. A "second" camera has to be as close to the first one. The "backup" is just ... a backup. To be used when primary camera fails and you don't want to go home with no pictures. Yes, iPhone is always a backup camera but a better one is always better. For me M9 is primary camera and NEX6 is the backup. Since I am not fully convince for A7, I also use NEX6 sometime as "second" camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3D-Kraft.com Posted February 3, 2014 Share #4270 Posted February 3, 2014 My backup for the A7R is a second A7R (but primarily used for stereoscopic 3D). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted February 3, 2014 Share #4271 Posted February 3, 2014 I've seen the engineering inside the A7R and, much like my 5DII, am comfortable rolling without a back up on personal projects. I always had a backup digital M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 4, 2014 Share #4272 Posted February 4, 2014 Hi, among my M mount lenses there are a few that do not work as desired on my M9 or on the SONY A7. Apart from not using them, on the A7 there is the lens correction app I have played with a little, but did have the time to try out extensively. My "problem-lenses" are: Voigtländer Heliar 5,6/12 Voigtländer Heliar 4,5/15 Voigtländer Skopar 4/21 ZEISS Biogon 4,5/21. Now the A7 can be set up to work in APS-C mode. So, I would like to show the Voigtländer 5,6/12 at f8, JPEG ooc on the A7, first FF, then in APS-C mode: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2525490'>More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 4, 2014 Share #4273 Posted February 4, 2014 I have also tried out my other "problem-lenes" in the same way. All of them work in APS-C mode better than on the NEX-6, and the NEX-5N. Personally, I do not benefit from this very much, however. Because the 12mm Heliar behaves like an 18mm on APS-C, just like my ZEISS Distagon 4/18, which works beautifully on my A7 (and my M9). The 15mm Heliar is like a 22,5mm in APS-C mode; this place is already filled by my Leica Elmarit 2,8/21 ASPH. And for the 21s as 31,5s I would use my Leica Elmarit 2,8/28 ASPH or one of my 35s, all in FF mode. But other users might see this differently, depending on their equipment ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 4, 2014 Share #4274 Posted February 4, 2014 Hi, among my M mount lenses there are a few that do not work as desired on my M9 or on the SONY A7. Apart from not using them, on the A7 there is the lens correction app I have played with a little, but did have the time to try out extensively. My "problem-lenses" are: Voigtländer Heliar 5,6/12 Voigtländer Heliar 4,5/15 Voigtländer Skopar 4/21 ZEISS Biogon 4,5/21. Now the A7 can be set up to work in APS-C mode. So, I would like to show the Voigtländer 5,6/12 at f8, JPEG ooc on the A7, first FF, then in APS-C mode: I use Voigtlander 15 with M9 and do flat field correction in LR5 (for color and vignetting both). Results are acceptable to me. The only issue is more grain in the corners since the dark areas get pulled. I am assuming that with A7 the grain in the corners will be less since sensor has way better sensitivity (that M9). Although this lens is not super sharp across the field, therefore I doubt you get more resolution though. BTW, the following pic is using M9 + Voigtlander 15 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2525585'>More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 4, 2014 Share #4275 Posted February 4, 2014 Hi, the 4,5/15 Heliar is one of the lenses I rarely use (which is a pity). But, perhaps with the SONY lens correction app that will change. First of all, the weather has to change, so that I can go out to take pictures ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 5, 2014 Share #4276 Posted February 5, 2014 Here, experiences with the Voigtländer Heliar 4,5/15 on the A7: The Sony A7 meets the Voigtlander 15mm Heliar by Steven Norquist | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 5, 2014 Share #4277 Posted February 5, 2014 Here, experiences with the Voigtländer Heliar 4,5/15 on the A7: The Sony A7 meets the Voigtlander 15mm Heliar by Steven Norquist | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS Seems similar to M9's. Maybe corner softness a bit worse on A7 but can't tell unless same scene is shot with both. Still I like this lens for special perspectives. After color cast removal it is very much usable (LR flat field correction is 3 mouse click operation ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 6, 2014 Share #4278 Posted February 6, 2014 Hi, in a similar vein, I would like to carry on... So, if the 5,6/12 Voigtländer works nicely in APS-C mode on the A7, how does it compare to a real 18mm (ZEISS Distagon 4/18) on the A7 in FF mode, and to the M9 with the 18mm? First, the scene with the Heliar "DIY-18", and then the ZEIS Distagon. (ISO 200, F8, JPEG ooc, (weather uncorntrolled)) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2527095'>More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 6, 2014 Share #4279 Posted February 6, 2014 Now, let us take a closer look. The crops: A7 with Heliar pseudo-18, then ZEISS 18, then the M9 with the ZEISS 18 manually coded as Leica Elmarit 2,8/21: (Pics are rough and ready, (sorry)) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2527106'>More sharing options...
Guest polygamer Posted February 6, 2014 Share #4280 Posted February 6, 2014 Now, what do make of this? The ZEISS Distagon 4/18 on the A7 shows unsatisfactory performance. The "pseudo-18" (Heliar) and the ZEISS 18 on the M9 appear to be close in this preliminary trial. I suppose, conclusions drawn will show great individual variation. For some, the A7 might be the best APS-C SONY for Leica M mount lenses. For me, it is open, where the optimal deployment of the A7 sets in. The safe cutover seems to be 35mm. So, for me Chubby Checker's Limbo question (how low can you go?) is still open for my A7 and my (Iron Lady) M9 ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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