Guido Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2481 Posted November 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) As of last week, Leica is not repairing M8's with faulty electronics anymore (shutter assembly & motherboard). I believe sensor replacement is out of question, only re-mapping is offered if applicable. According to some unconfirmed insider info, faulty M9 sensors have a close to zero chance to be replaced (I personally know people still waiting for sensor damage service). Aside personal affections and inclinations, the above strongly undermines "real" M8 and M9 resale value except when the buyer is utterly uninformed on digital M's servicing constraints (as it seems it is still always the case as of today). The M9 part doesn't sound very convincing to me. After all, the M-E and MM are part of Leica's current product line-up and share exactly the same sensor with the M9. Both models are being manufactured, so there have to be sensors around. Apart from that, I could live with such non-repairability at this price point - if only Leica provided a fair exchange-and-upgrade plan (M8/M9 -> M/E or M) to affected owners. Yes, it can be done, and it's profitable. They just have to look at how Phase One does it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 21, 2013 Posted November 21, 2013 Hi Guido, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stevelap Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2482 Posted November 21, 2013 2460 posts about a Sony camera on a Leica forum. I hope Leica is paying attention. IMHO the rumored Leica AF mirrorless ILC camera needs to be a lot better than the a7r to get my attention. APS-C is a negative. Leica, are you listening? I think it will depend on how Leica perceives any mirrorless CSC they might build. If, for instance, they position it below the M as their entry into the mirrorless built-in EVF market they might think that APS will do, particularly if it's introduced as an extension of the X line. Even more so if they still view the M in LV/EVF mode as their 'adequate solution for R lenses'......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2483 Posted November 21, 2013 Please do not forget that Zeiss is in the process of designing and making MF lenses for the Sony A7 and A7r. They will include electrical contacts to communicate information to the camera including EXIF. These will be designed, and manufactured, and distributed by and through Zeiss channels and not Sony. It is expected that Zeiss will have lenses to show at Photkina in 2014 but at this point we do not know which lens focal lengths and designs will be used for the initial release. We also do not know the weights, lengths, and costs of these lenses. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucklik Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2484 Posted November 21, 2013 If you want to go further, do double blind tests on the prints in front of your audience. How many of you have ever done this or care by the way? I've done this years ago with similar pictures at the same spot with my Ricoh GR1 and M6 with asph 35cron. Nobody could tel on 30x40cm photos which picture was taken with which camera/lens. I could see the difference but my audience who called themselves specialist could not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teeraash Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2485 Posted November 21, 2013 The microlenses have very little to do with the problems with M glass, well ok, some vignetting and Italian flag that are software correctable. The real culprit is the sensor glass cover that is too thick, causing smearing and field curvature in the borders and corners. The good news is that a small surgery to remove the glass cover and replace it with a thin one will do wonders, but may make the camera incompatible with native glass. I'm sure we will see in the near future a couple of companies offering this service. Hi Edward: If your assumption is correct then it would be easy for Song to make A7M by removing the AA glass (instead of turning it 90 degree?), moving the sensor forward a notch to compensate for a thinner stack so that the camera would be compatible with native AF lenses. There are lot of people who have M lenses and are willing to pay for the M version but Zeiss would not like this at all as they are developing MF lenses for the new system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2486 Posted November 21, 2013 I've shot at least 100 home interior over the past two weeks. Almost all were made using a 17 TSE or a 24 TSE. These lenses can be used on an A7r as well as on Canon bodies. For my work these are a much better w/a solution than anything Leica offers. Thus I don't get all of the talk about Leica making such "superior" w/a lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2487 Posted November 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've shot at least 100 home interior over the past two weeks. Almost all were made using a 17 TSE or a 24 TSE. These lenses can be used on an A7r as well as on Canon bodies. For my work these are a much better w/a solution than anything Leica offers. Thus I don't get all of the talk about Leica making such "superior" w/a lenses. Alan, I'm sure you do understand it really, even if it doesn't apply to you. It all depends on what you use your lenses for. For those of us who don't take 100 interior shots every couple of weeks but are out and about trying to be alert to whatever serendipitously comes our way, Leica's WA lenses may be just the job. They certainly are for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2488 Posted November 21, 2013 Thus I don't get all of the talk about Leica making such "superior" w/a lenses. I believe the talk is not so much about "superior" lenses, but "superior and tiny" lenses. E.g. Canon 24 TSE = 780g; Leica Elmarit 24/2.8 = 290g... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2489 Posted November 21, 2013 Hi Edward: If your assumption is correct then it would be easy for Song to make A7M by removing the AA glass (instead of turning it 90 degree?), moving the sensor forward a notch to compensate for a thinner stack so that the camera would be compatible with native AF lenses. There are lot of people who have M lenses and are willing to pay for the M version but Zeiss would not like this at all as they are developing MF lenses for the new system. The fact is we don't know yet why Sony decided to go this way. They could have a very good reason to do so, not just for Zeiss to sell their lenses. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2490 Posted November 21, 2013 Keep in mind that most of the Zeiss Contax G lenses are in the under 200g range except for the 35-70 G zoom which is 290g. The 28/2.8 comes in at 150g! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2491 Posted November 21, 2013 Believe me I understand the weight and size thing however this is also a very narrow need... smaller extremely high resolving fast w/a prime lenses. Who looks at edge detail of a scene shot at f1.4-f 2? And are you likely to be using a tripod or a high shutter speed when shooting wide open and is focus perfect? If not, are you getting the most detail out of the lens? I study my interior images at 100% on a 16" laptop tethered to the camera. These are images generally shot at f8 and I frequently move the focus just a tiny bit to get the DOF perfect. That is the level you need to work at to get the most out of this gear today. So how hard is it to make a good fairly light small w/a lens for the A7r that will do a good job at f5.6-f11 where you will be if critical detail is your main goal? A Nikon AF 24mm f2.8 for DSLR is not very big and heavy.... 268 grams. (Lighter than the Elmarit.) With DXO Optics as my raw converter, I find that once lens distortion, c/a, and vignetting are corrected, even a good "walk around" zoom lens like the 24-105 IS can be used for many critical applications. (DXO also adds more sharpening to the edges for some lenses.) So that is a solution for me that works better than carrying 3 or more primes to cover that range... when I want to work light and simple. Now I'm using a Nex 6 for a lot of this as the images are fine quality for the purpose. An A7r with 24-70 or even the A7 with kit zoom should be more than good enough for a lot of typical fast (and slow) work. When I see what most current cameras can do, I look at the need to have even more highly detailed images as kind of an exception for most people and it makes me wonder if that is sometimes a goal in itself. When people keep saying that Japanese companies do not make wide angle lenses that are as good as those made by Leica, one has to consider that Canon and others are taking on the effort of producing much more cutting edge designs to solve more specific problems for photographers than just having some very expensive smaller lenses that perhaps are also a tiny bit sharper in some situations... Canon 17mm and 24mm TSEs, AF fisheye zooms, AF 16-35 2.8, AF 24-70 2.8, Nikon 14-24 2.8, Canon 35mm f2 IS stabilized lens, other lenses - long and zooms with stabilization. Plus they try to keep these reasonably affordable and are not charging $10,000 for a 17mm TSE lens. Yes some teles are $10K+. Many of these lenses will work on the A7r along with slower light prime AF lenses that should do the job for many if not all here. Lots more good lenses for the A7 will be out from Sony, Zeiss, and others for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi996sps Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2492 Posted November 21, 2013 Feast or Famine? At breakfast time today, i only had what i have had since the A7r was announced, an anticipation of what it would be like to hold and use, and that was after i called a Sony Dealer and Internet Retailer after breakfast. By lunch time today, i had the same Sony Dealer and Internet Retailer call me to say they both had the A7r in stock. By tea time today, i have an A7r sitting on the kitchen worktop, charging away. Hopefully, by teatime tomorrow, my adapter (voigtlander) will have arrived and i can start using the camera with my 50lux and 75cron. .... i also have a 28cron and will try that too, just so i can see the 'problem' for myself. What struck me was, that neither of them knew this morning that they would be getting the camera's in the afternoon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2493 Posted November 21, 2013 I for one at times crop my shots and also often add vignetting for effect. So why not try to crop some WA Leica a7r images in order to eliminate any edge problems? MSearing I am not so sure about though. Just shoot the frame larger in anticipation that you will be cutting some of the edges away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2494 Posted November 21, 2013 I believe the talk is not so much about "superior" lenses, but "superior and tiny" lenses. E.g. Canon 24 TSE = 780g; Leica Elmarit 24/2.8 = 290g... I just picked up the FE35 Zeiss and almost laughed out loud. It is tiny, and unbelievably light. The camera too is tiny, side by sides are a bit deceptive, this thing is small. And light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guido Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2495 Posted November 21, 2013 I just picked up the FE35 Zeiss and almost laughed out loud. It is tiny, and unbelievably light.The camera too is tiny, side by sides are a bit deceptive, this thing is small. And light. That's interesting, since the FE35 looked quite large and thick on screen. Did you already have a chance to check IQ wide open? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2496 Posted November 21, 2013 That's interesting, since the FE35 looked quite large and thick on screen. Did you already have a chance to check IQ wide open? Here are specifics about the FE35mm lens: Filter Thread Front: 49 mm Dimensions (DxL) Approx. 2.42 x 1.44" (61.5 x 36.5 mm) Weight 4.23 oz (120 g) Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eakakeeak Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2497 Posted November 21, 2013 A7 + 35mm/F1.4 Summilux FLE Center - Corner Test ISO50 and ISO6400 Crop 100% A7 + 35mm/F1.4 Summilux FLE - a set on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2498 Posted November 21, 2013 I just picked up the FE35 Zeiss and almost laughed out loud. It is tiny, and unbelievably light.The camera too is tiny, side by sides are a bit deceptive, this thing is small. And light. Congratulations! The A7R + FE35Z appears to be promising. What's your first impression? Also, did you have any luck with your Leica lenses on the A7R? Thanks for any images, including ones with and without problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2499 Posted November 21, 2013 Here are specifics about the FE35mm lens: Filter Thread Front: 49 mm Dimensions (DxL) Approx. 2.42 x 1.44" (61.5 x 36.5 mm) Weight 4.23 oz (120 g) Rich I was just looking at those specs in the brochure. 120g, makes you wonder if there is any glass in there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 21, 2013 Share #2500 Posted November 21, 2013 As of last week, Leica is not repairing M8's with faulty electronics anymore (shutter assembly & motherboard). I believe sensor replacement is out of question, only re-mapping is offered if applicable. According to some unconfirmed insider info, faulty M9 sensors have a close to zero chance to be replaced (I personally know people still waiting for sensor damage service). Aside personal affections and inclinations, the above strongly undermines "real" M8 and M9 resale value except when the buyer is utterly uninformed on digital M's servicing constraints (as it seems it is still always the case as of today). Best, M I just got off the phone with Leica New Jersey Technical Support and they specifically stated that they have all parts for the M8 except the LCD. When specifically asked if, they were running out of or had run out of motherboards and shutters... the guy said they have them in stock and they are not running out. I asked about the LCD and was transferred to the Repair Department. They stated that I would be eligible for a trade in toward an ME or an M240! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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