Guest borge Posted October 15, 2013 Share #521 Posted October 15, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) As long as it has a MODE/SCENE dial rather than a proper shutter speed dial this camera is not an alternative to an M. It's also very ugly, and tries to look too much like a dslr. The best thing about a M is that you rarely have to fiddle around in menus for a basic thing like shutter speed control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 15, 2013 Posted October 15, 2013 Hi Guest borge, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted October 15, 2013 Share #522 Posted October 15, 2013 Backup for what - M9P, Monochrom, M3 or D800E I'm very interested, but I'm not taking that many pictures just at the moment, and I'm certainly not making the most of the gear I have. It is tempting, though - a small, full frame, weather sealed camera which takes Leica and Zeiss glass without the limitations (or benefits) of an optical rangefinder. Hmm, the truth is, I prefer my M9-P. When would I want to use this camera when I wouldn't use my Leica? GAS. But very interesting. If it had a Leica badge, I might succumb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted October 15, 2013 Share #523 Posted October 15, 2013 Yeah, I'm wondering if the Sony Alpha Rumor site is actually owned and run by Sony. At minimum, it is used by them. As I have noted, I cancelled an order I placed about a month ago for the OlympusOM-D E-M1. I wanted a small camera that used zooms, but produced high quality files. The Olympus was supposed to ship around October 3, but apparently will start to ship in the next few days. Once I heard about the Sony I canceled because even though these cameras are considerably cheaper than Leicas, by the time you add a couple of lenses, batteries, filters, and all the other stuff, you can still be looking at a $3,000 or $4,000 investment for a basic system. The rumor sites indicated that the sources were highly reliable and that Sony seemed to be fairly open about what was coming. I would not be at all surprised if Sony did this to cause people like me to rethink the Olympus purchase decision. That raises an interesting question: I keep reading that Olympus is a "partner" with Sony. I would love to be a fly on the discussions between the two companies, if there were any. Olympus must feel like the rug was pulled out from under them, particularly because the Olympus got some very good reviews from creditable sources (Ming Thein and Luminous Landscape). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJH Posted October 15, 2013 Share #524 Posted October 15, 2013 Olympus and Panasonic do that fine for themselves. The single biggest failure of m4/3 has been the lack of high quality telephoto lenses which are the very thing which could have really cemented the system. That and the ability to focus said lenses effectively. Its increasingly looking like a dead end consumer grade only system when one could put say a 70-200 on a 36 Mp FF camera and just crop down/crop mode to get the reach. The words game changer are well over used in this industry but this Sony could be exactly that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naturephoto1 Posted October 15, 2013 Share #525 Posted October 15, 2013 In many ways I see the new Sony A7, A7r, and the additional soon to follow FF E-mount cameras with their EVF mirrorless technology as the R Solution that Leica promised us for a long time. It was to be a new camera that was to offer new AF lenses and also allow us to mount our R lenses. Unfortunately, Leica abandoned the project and the potential sales of these cameras is now lost. Leica decided to try to mate both the M and R systems in a single camera, the M240 that had too many limitations for many that were accustomed to the flexibility of our SLR cameras. Whether Leica can now act fast enough to recover from this blatant error only time will tell. If the new Sony A7, A7r, and subsequent FF E-mount cameras will perform well with the small high performing M WA lenses this may become the ideal camera for many of us that do not normally use RF cameras. We can supplement our excellent R macro, telephoto, and zoom lenses with these small superbly performing WA M lenses and allow us to use the Leica optics of our choice with a single camera body. Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 15, 2013 Share #526 Posted October 15, 2013 Steve huff seems to be hinting that he has been reviewing the cameras already, and will be posting his hands on review in the next few days. Or maybe, it will be a CRAZY (hose me down quick) virtual unboxing video of him opening the Sony website! Yay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 16, 2013 Share #527 Posted October 16, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I loathed the menus on my NEX-5n (now donated to my son), but this camera is intriguing. The killer will be how the camera deals with fast wides, I agree. I'm not convinced that this issue will be limited to Leica wides. The camera apparently has a similar short register distance to the Leica M cameras, which will mean the problem is pretty much universal, surely. If they can get it sorted with their Zeiss lenses, there has to be a chance that the Leicas will perform similarly (save to the extent that it is a peculiarity of the particular lens). Leica has been designing lenses for the M mount for 50 years - if I was Sony or Zeiss, I would have a very good look at the M mount and M lenses when developing a full frame E mount ... Doesn't the Red video camera also take M mount lenses? I can't help but wonder if some of the concerns expressed here are just looking for reasons to fail. Sony is a big sensor manufacturer, with a very high success rate, and they're offering a Leica M adapter (if the rumours are to be believed) - don't you think they would have looked at how Leica wides might perform on their new sensor? Just thinking ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted October 16, 2013 Share #528 Posted October 16, 2013 As long as it has a MODE/SCENE dial rather than a proper shutter speed dial this camera is not an alternative to an M. I agree that the lack of a shutter speed dial on top of the camera is an issue for me also. I can't tell from the pictures if it has one or not... Although it doesn't look like it. The Nex 6 has both a Mode dial and a control dial (shutter speed or aperture depending on the mode you're in). The control dial is concentric with the mode dial and is actually quite easy to use and effective. I have to admit that I like the Nex 6 a lot. It makes great files, is compact, very usable (once you learn the controls) and has a tremendous amount of controllability. Tough also. I took a spill hiking down a mountain trail and crashed it into a rock. Scuffed and battered, it hasn't missed a beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 16, 2013 Share #529 Posted October 16, 2013 As long as it has a MODE/SCENE dial rather than a proper shutter speed dial this camera is not an alternative to an M. It's also very ugly, and tries to look too much like a dslr. The best thing about a M is that you rarely have to fiddle around in menus for a basic thing like shutter speed control. The new Sony has a control dial in front and likely one in back, just like the RX1 and the A99. One dial for aperture and one dial for shutter. Just turn the mode dial to M(anual) and you're in business. Cameras have had such dials for decades now. They are easy to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 16, 2013 Share #530 Posted October 16, 2013 I agree that the lack of a shutter speed dial on top of the camera is an issue for me also. I can't tell from the pictures if it has one or not... Although it doesn't look like it. The Nex 6 has both a Mode dial and a control dial (shutter speed or aperture depending on the mode you're in). The control dial is concentric with the mode dial and is actually quite easy to use and effective. \. And Zlatkob, I agree with you For years, manual 35mm film camera exposure could be operated quickly and efficiently, with the minimum of fuss, simply using a lens barrel aperture ring and a top deck shutterspeed dial (accepting the quirky Contax SLRs where the shutter speed dial was where most manufacturers put their ISO dial, and of course the Olympus with shutterspeed and aperture along the lens barrel. Why the more of the serious 'mirrorless' manufacturers can't maintain this excellent ergonomic layout is beyond me. The Sony NEX 6/7 are better with dials near the shutter button which can be set for shutterspeed. The A7 series may get it right One of the other reasons why I'm using Leica digital M cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted October 16, 2013 Share #531 Posted October 16, 2013 I played with one of the Sony SLT cameras last week and was blown away at how fast it is. I had a chance to play with the A99 at a Sony store and was quite impressed with the built-in EVF. It's really big and I did not detect any lag, at least in the few minutes I played with it. If the EVF on the A7 is as good, it should be quite impressive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 16, 2013 Share #532 Posted October 16, 2013 As long as it has a MODE/SCENE dial rather than a proper shutter speed dial this camera is not an alternative to an M. It's also very ugly, and tries to look too much like a dslr. The best thing about a M is that you rarely have to fiddle around in menus for a basic thing like shutter speed control. Of course you won't have to resort to using a menu to set the shutter speed. What camera requires that? I find the traditional top mounted shutter speed dial as kind of primitive in use. Depending on how the camera is positioned relative to me, I find it easier to use a modern electronic shutter speed dial with 1/3rd stops to set the shutter speed while looking through the camera, via the rear LCD or maybe using the top LCD which can be illuminated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 16, 2013 Share #533 Posted October 16, 2013 I had a chance to play with the A99 at a Sony store and was quite impressed with the built-in EVF. It's really big and I did not detect any lag, at least in the few minutes I played with it. If the EVF on the A7 is as good, it should be quite impressive. No chance that it will be worse. It is a new EVF and is supposed to be even better. I'll be at the Photo Expo next week and will take a look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 16, 2013 Share #534 Posted October 16, 2013 ...That and the ability to focus said lenses effectively. Its increasingly looking like a dead end consumer grade only system when one could put say a 70-200 on a 36 Mp FF camera and just crop down/crop mode to get the reach. The words game changer are well over used in this industry but this Sony could be exactly that. Very very true. This and some other M4/3rd posts made me rethink that format and APS. At first I was thinking that M4/3rds and APS could still have the advantage of smaller size lenses since camera bodies can only be so small and still be ergonomic. And the A7 looks to be small enough but grip-able. (My Nex 6 is hard to hold with heavier lenses because I can't get all of my fingers on the grip.) But it occurred to me that even if the smaller APS and M4/3rd format allows for some of those lenses to be smaller, those very same lenses could still be used on the 36MP A7r in cropped mode, as you pointed out. So if I own an A7r and want a good compact travel camera, I could put my tiny collapsible Nex 16-50 and shoot in APS mode. But then I could also use a Canon FF 24mm or 17mm TSE lens on it for interior work and have higher res than I get with any Canon body. One could also attach a vertical grip for better handling with large lenses from numerous brands. This is amazing versatility that if well communicated and understood will appeal to many photographers. If this 36MP body somehow produces better photos with Leica M lenses than the M body itself does, then Leica sales will be affected... despite the lack of a rangefinder. Nikon and Canon pro models should remain competitive if they have better AF. However M4/3rds and APS cameras will still have appeal to people who have no interest in full frame cameras and don't need its features and quality. Even M4/3rds is overkill for many uses. BTW starting quite a number of years ago I periodically suggested that Leica should be thinking about developing live view and adding a clip on EVF and people relentless attacked that idea on this forum every time I brought it up. Of course Leica did not have the means to develop the technology the way Sony has but it seems its time has come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 16, 2013 Share #535 Posted October 16, 2013 Leica needs to team with an electronics company to get their M camera up to par technically IMHO. Or Sony might eat their lunch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 16, 2013 Share #536 Posted October 16, 2013 Leica needs to team with an electronics company to get their M camera up to par technically IMHO.Or Sony might eat their lunch. Well Sony has already teamed up with a good lens company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted October 16, 2013 Share #537 Posted October 16, 2013 Of Course Alan (not owned, I'm sure). But it's fun to have all the information (at least, I think so). Yep, and the scary part is that they even master the pre-announcement leaking business better than Solms when considering the X Vario fiasco in this "marketing discipline". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 16, 2013 Share #538 Posted October 16, 2013 Well Sony has already teamed up with a good lens company. Too late. Even if Leica were to do so today, it would take a couple of years to bring a new product to market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 16, 2013 Share #539 Posted October 16, 2013 Well Sony has already teamed up with a good lens company. Exactly! Leica, Panasonic, why not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 16, 2013 Share #540 Posted October 16, 2013 In many ways I see the new Sony A7, A7r, and the additional soon to follow FF E-mount cameras with their EVF mirrorless technology as the R Solution that Leica promised us for a long time. It was to be a new camera that was to offer new AF lenses and also allow us to mount our R lenses. Unfortunately, Leica abandoned the project and the potential sales of these cameras is now lost. Leica decided to try to mate both the M and R systems in a single camera, the M240 that had too many limitations for many that were accustomed to the flexibility of our SLR cameras. Whether Leica can now act fast enough to recover from this blatant error only time will tell. If the new Sony A7, A7r, and subsequent FF E-mount cameras will perform well with the small high performing M WA lenses this may become the ideal camera for many of us that do not normally use RF cameras. We can supplement our excellent R macro, telephoto, and zoom lenses with these small superbly performing WA M lenses and allow us to use the Leica optics of our choice with a single camera body. Rich If the new Zeiss 24-70 zoom offers great IQ, I will have no need for my Leica wides. I'm more than happy to use this zoom along with Leica 35mm and 50mm M mount glass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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