Guest borge Posted October 13, 2013 Share #441 Posted October 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree if you want the an OVF there are only 2 options at the moment and that is a leica M or fuji X-pro 1 The X-Pro1 isn't a rangefinder. The X-Pro1 has an optical viewfinder with a digital overlay. You can't really compare them at all in regards to how you operate the cameras. An optical viewfinder would need a optical split prism or rangefinder to be comparable in use with manual focus lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 Hi Guest borge, Take a look here The Sony A7 thread [Merged]. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tgm Posted October 13, 2013 Share #442 Posted October 13, 2013 I don't think it looks like a DSLR, more like an M4/3 Olympus OM-D. Or like a Sony RX-1 with a little grip and a viewfinder. Still a compact form factor. I think this is spliting hairs, the OM-D look very much alike the OM1-OM4 SLRs, I thinks that was intended. Actually, I like the OM cameras a lot, they were my favorite tools for many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 13, 2013 Share #443 Posted October 13, 2013 The main challenge is that there won't be a rangefinder. Which is the main reason for many M users to use Leica cameras, myself included. I've tried all the EVF variants, adapters, and stuff like that... Yes, it works, but it's a pain to use, and I don't like it. But if the price premium of a optical rangefinder only will be $5000 then maybe it's worth putting up with the EVF hassle. Interesting times. The RF in any M camera only applies to 28mm lenses and up. With very limited usability above 75mm. Below 28mm you're dealing with a VF camera which means very limited framing accuracy and no exposure information. EVF is the future. 100% framing, accurate focus with off-centre subjects. depth of field preview capability. If the 4mp EVF proves to be true with the A7/A7R, I'm forever done with tack on external finders and the focus/re-compose routine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougg Posted October 14, 2013 Share #444 Posted October 14, 2013 The RF in any M camera only applies to 28mm lenses and up. With very limited usability above 75mm. Below 28mm you're dealing with a VF camera which means very limited framing accuracy and no exposure information. EVF is the future. 100% framing, accurate focus with off-centre subjects. depth of field preview capability. If the 4mp EVF proves to be true with the A7/A7R, I'm forever done with tack on external finders and the focus/re-compose routine. This is very reminiscent of the arguments in favor of the SLR in the 1960's, when the RF became obsolete, passé, a has-been. And they were right, the RF sank into a niche market position. Nevertheless, there are those who prefer the RF way "despite logic" and continue to use them, yes, even now 50 years later! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfhrased Posted October 14, 2013 Share #445 Posted October 14, 2013 I'm interested in the A7R.. could make a good partner to the M9-P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 14, 2013 Share #446 Posted October 14, 2013 Yes, you are right, the sony ff looks like a DSLR here is already a (low resolution) picture (SR5) First low resolution image of the Sony A7 mirrorles Full Frame! | sonyalpharumors The hand grip seems to me a little to close to lens'barrel... even if the depicted lens maybe isn't one of the slimmest (apparently, a zoom of the "28-80" breed) : I wonder if there is space for a Noctilux... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 14, 2013 Share #447 Posted October 14, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) One rumor site is reporting that Sony will make available an adapter "for free" that will permit the buyer to use either Nikon, Canon, or Leica lenses with the new full frame Nex cameras. There are three separate adapters and the buyer can choose one, according to the rumor. Apparently this is being done because Sony recognizes that there are not yet a wide assortment of lenses available for the camera. There is also indication that more Sony lenses will be coming in 2014. Rumors, of course, but tantalizing none the less. The "gift" of an adapter can have a sense , expecially for the 36MP "body only" version, given that such a camera mostly targets users who own a lens set... but is a bit strange that Sony squarely declares "we haven't yet enough good lenses... use others from competitors" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted October 14, 2013 Share #448 Posted October 14, 2013 but is a bit strange that Sony squarely declares "we haven't yet enough good lenses... use others from competitors" It makes sense! Like Epson sells color jet printer at a very low price, however, makes a profit from the color ink catridge. Sony takes a "Pre-emption" marketing strategy to sell camera body firstly as she knows so many Leica M and other brands FF lenses owners are waiting for an affordable FF camera body. Once they buy a A7 or A7R body and play with their incumbent lenses, then Sony get the grace period allowed to bring out a series of high definition Zeiss lense at premium price for the 36MP camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jarski Posted October 14, 2013 Share #449 Posted October 14, 2013 finally this seems happening. after don't know anymore how many years of waiting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted October 14, 2013 Share #450 Posted October 14, 2013 It makes sense! Like Epson sells color jet printer at a very low price, however, makes a profit from the color ink catridge. Sony takes a "Pre-emption" marketing strategy to sell camera body firstly as she knows so many Leica M and other brands FF lenses owners are waiting for an affordable FF camera body. Once they buy a A7 or A7R body and play with their incumbent lenses, then Sony get the grace period allowed to bring out a series of high definition Zeiss lense at premium price for the 36MP camera. Similar to what Leica did with the S system, though they didn't give the lens adapters away for free. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
onceuponatime Posted October 14, 2013 Share #451 Posted October 14, 2013 Leaked low res photo on Sony rumor sight suggests a design as Minolta Maxxum 9000, Canon A-1. I still prefer the elan of Leica M, still i shall use the A7/r before making my mind up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 14, 2013 Share #452 Posted October 14, 2013 I'm interested in the A7R.. could make a good partner to the M9-P Not long to go … Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214267-the-sony-a7-thread-merged/?do=findComment&comment=2441518'>More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 14, 2013 Share #453 Posted October 14, 2013 This is very reminiscent of the arguments in favor of the SLR in the 1960's, when the RF became obsolete, passé, a has-been. And they were right, the RF sank into a niche market position. Nevertheless, there are those who prefer the RF way "despite logic" and continue to use them, yes, even now 50 years later! SLR's in the 60's (and for many years beyond) addressed the ability shoot with wides without requiring tack-on finders but were still hamstrung by the centre-focus/recompose routine. My 50 LUX ASPH is my favourite lens by far but it's extremely difficult to focus accurately on off-centre subjects when shooting at large apertures with any M camera. The ability to select a focus point anywhere in the frame is a big deal for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted October 14, 2013 Share #454 Posted October 14, 2013 Remember that Sony already has an adapter for alpha lenses so it is kind of unfair to say they don't have lenses for this camera. Of course there are lots more Nikon and Canon lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 14, 2013 Share #455 Posted October 14, 2013 Anyway... given the mean prices of M adapters (I refer to the "respectly branded" ones) , just the idea of having one (Sony-branded) FOR FREE... even at the cost of buying a camera (and an interesting one...)... can be a incentive sufficient for deciding to buy... Apart the question of price, if the camera is really announced with THREE adapters ready to use...be it true or not the rumor of "1 for free" (*) , is a significant choice by itself : Sony must be very confident in himself... the risk of having negative issues from 3 communities (Nikon / Canon / ... and this one ) complaining of the performances of their beloved lenses on this new body... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted October 14, 2013 Share #456 Posted October 14, 2013 I would not be in any position to complain that much about the performance of my Leica M lenses on this US$ 1698 A7 body with built-in EVF and hand grip, even if it the performance is a little bit inferior to that of M240. Using M240 may cost me US$ 8600 ( in Taiwan, instead of US$ 6995 in B&H), plus an EVF (US$ 499) and a hand grip (US$ 239), amounting to US$ 9338, and the patience waiting for a trouble-free use experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted October 14, 2013 Share #457 Posted October 14, 2013 What we are seeing is Moore's law ported over to cameras, which should come as no surprise because cameras are now computers. Digital bodies by and large are no longer timeless. It is the lenses that matter. The new Sony cameras pose potential problems for both Leica and Canon/Nikon. Those who love RF and Leica are likely to continue to happily and successfully use Leica Ms. But I suspect those who are considering a Leica M and who never used Leica before are likely to take a look at the Sony. If it is as good as some are suggesting and hoping, I suspect Leica will lose some M sales. On a grander scale, I suspect the Sony, again assuming it delivers on expectations, poses a threat to DSLRs. It is a smaller body with smaller lenses, but it is full frame, allows for interchangeable lenses, and produces gigantic files, which some people will find useful. In any event, it is all good news for camera users. And yes, I am thinking about the Sony FF. As I noted elsewhere, I canceled my order for the new Olympus. Originally, I saw the 4/3s as a way to supplement my Ms. I still hold that view--I wanted to use zooms in certain situations--but that could change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 14, 2013 Share #458 Posted October 14, 2013 What we are seeing is Moore's law ported over to cameras, which should come as no surprise because cameras are now computers. Digital bodies by and large are no longer timeless. It is the lenses that matter. The new Sony cameras pose potential problems for both Leica and Canon/Nikon. Those who love RF and Leica are likely to continue to happily and successfully use Leica Ms. But I suspect those who are considering a Leica M and who never used Leica before are likely to take a look at the Sony. If it is as good as some are suggesting and hoping, I suspect Leica will lose some M sales. On a grander scale, I suspect the Sony, again assuming it delivers on expectations, poses a threat to DSLRs. It is a smaller body with smaller lenses, but it is full frame, allows for interchangeable lenses, and produces gigantic files, which some people will find useful. In any event, it is all good news for camera users. And yes, I am thinking about the Sony FF. As I noted elsewhere, I canceled my order for the new Olympus. Originally, I saw the 4/3s as a way to supplement my Ms. I still hold that view--I wanted to use zooms in certain situations--but that could change. Thanks Jack. Of course, I welcome all the diverse camera offerings. I also wish all the companies well. My E-M1 arrived a couple weeks ago. It is already one of my favorite cameras due to its very functional user interface. Interestingly enough the Sony A7/A7R supposedly have the same EVF as the E-M1 and VF-4. It seems identical technologies appear in different packages. The Sony A7/A7R, either one or the other, or both will be a very exciting addition to my cameras. Currently in active use are: M9, D800E, NEX-5N, NEX-7, E-M5, E-M1. I have great hopes that at least my Nikkor and Leica R lenses will work just fine on the FF NEXs. M lenses should be mostly okay and we can always hope that WA will work to some degree. But for me that's nice but secondary. My primary interest in the Sony A7/A7R is for R lenses. Also, having cameras with crop factors of 1x, 1.5x, and 2x permits additional uses for superb but expensive lenses. For me, using old and new lenses on new cameras is just a lot of fun. So far Leica has not definitively lost me for an M purchase. However, Leica needs to get to par with their electronics and quality assurance. I am just not that into fashion. Having finally another FF camera available for my Leica lenses feels real good - provided the rumors turn out to be spot on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 14, 2013 Share #459 Posted October 14, 2013 An electronic viewfinder, interchangeable lens (EVIL) camera with a full frame sensor that will come in 24mp and 36mp versions. Featuring entirely new sensors with offset micro lenses (like the M9/M240) HI Stephen Actually, and worth noting. As far as I'm aware the M240 does NOT have offset micro lenses. The CMOSIS sensor uses shallower wells to accommodate wide angled lenses - colour vignetting can still occur (and needs correcting in software), but it avoids the colour shift problems which plagued the M8 and M9. I doubt it will be enough for Sony to implement angled micro lenses without lens specific software correction for M mount lenses. All very well in the NEX 5 which were APS/c, but quite a different matter in a full frame camera. Of course - maybe they WILL have a software tool for calibrating different lenses to stop colour shift and vignetting. Still, it would appear that Sony have picked up a technology which Leica gave up as being inadequate . . . .. . We shall see! Which doesn't mean to say these won't be great cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted October 14, 2013 Share #460 Posted October 14, 2013 The information is now "flowing" at: (SR5) Hot! First full size images of the A7 and A7r cameras with lenses! | sonyalpharumors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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