JDP Posted October 7, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone else experiencing some major banding issues with the new M? I've had mine a few months now and seen this behaviour on numerous occasions. I admit that these samples are not ideally exposed, but dang!!! for a camera at this price point and from a company of this lineage they're pretty awful in terms of banding IMHO. The worrying thing for me is that they are visible very clearly in the full sized image seen as a whole, not zoomed in which effectively makes them unusable for anything 'serious'. This was shot at ISO 3200, not 6400 to boot. Any thoughts? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/214240-m240-banding-issues/?do=findComment&comment=2436410'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Hi JDP, Take a look here M240 Banding Issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
huckles Posted October 7, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 7, 2013 If it isn't properly exposed at 3200, you will get banding. it's quite terrible for a camera of this cost. On paper the higher ISO benefits to the M9 is not as big as most people think.... I still love it, but am stunned that this occurs at 3200, and there is no point in shooting at say 800/1600 and pushing in post.. you'll get a green cast... try it.. :S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted October 7, 2013 Yes, I admit it is heavily under exposed, just a bit of a shock at such a 'low' ISO on a camera of this calibre. I've read of this green cast when pushing, so that's out. Thanks for your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 7, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 7, 2013 Yeah, I get it. We asked for 'better' when compared to the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 7, 2013 Share #5 Posted October 7, 2013 Yes, I admit it is heavily under exposed... Then it you pushed it by, say, 2 EV you've got the equivalent of a 12,800 iso file. Try do do this with an M9. Not that bad if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted October 7, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 7, 2013 Anyone else experiencing some major banding issues with the new M? I've had mine a few months now and seen this behaviour on numerous occasions. I admit that these samples are not ideally exposed, but dang!!! for a camera at this price point and from a company of this lineage they're pretty awful in terms of banding IMHO. The worrying thing for me is that they are visible very clearly in the full sized image seen as a whole, not zoomed in which effectively makes them unusable for anything 'serious'. This was shot at ISO 3200, not 6400 to boot. Any thoughts? I've been shooting with a loaner M for the past week and banding is evident in almost all shots at ISO 3200 and above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 8, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Matter of exposure i guess. No significant banding at 3200 and 4000 iso here (19 MB files). http://tinyurl.com/kl4okn8 http://tinyurl.com/pkmr2h7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirekE Posted October 8, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 8, 2013 I think I see as much banding, but I don't consider this a major issue. Either it is my monitor, my eyes or my expectations. In any case, my Canon 5D2 has more noise and banding, so the M240 makes me happy. I was recently playing with some ISO 6400 shots and found that the banding can be partially mitigated in LR by applying some noise reduction followed by adding noise. Part of the banding goes away by the NR, part is masked by the added noise, which also brings back the detail lost by the NR (or makes impression of detail). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Posted October 8, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 8, 2013 I just got my M yesterday. Squeezed a few at ISO3200/6400. Out of curiosity (after reading this thread), I pushed it by two stops from 6400. Banding, yes. But I have seen worse on my 5D2. At 6400 with further push at LR and with the "right" exposure, it's not so bad to be honest. I even find the grain inoffensive. Of course, it's not definitive as I just shot some 20 frames. And since it's new, everything seems to be "beautiful" at this point :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huckles Posted October 8, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 8, 2013 I just got my M yesterday. Squeezed a few at ISO3200/6400. Out of curiosity (after reading this thread), I pushed it by two stops from 6400. Banding, yes. But I have seen worse on my 5D2. At 6400 with further push at LR and with the "right" exposure, it's not so bad to be honest. I even find the grain inoffensive. Of course, it's not definitive as I just shot some 20 frames. And since it's new, everything seems to be "beautiful" at this point :-) I guess people will compare systems to what they have or used... but to compare it to a Mark II which by the way is almost 5 and a half years old?! :S That is my point exactly. If technology marches on, Leica has marched on very very slowly, not really a march... not really a walk.. somewhat a crawl. As I said, I love my M BUT it is very hard to defend it / compare it to current market competition. Where it wins is feel, size, and subjectively... heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Posted October 8, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 8, 2013 Fair enough. Comparing it to my M9P which I still have, you can't even hope to push it that far. Seriously, banding is not an issue for me even with my other systems. When it does, it's usually because I used an incorrect exposure. I don't expect the camera to compensate for my mistakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huckles Posted October 8, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 8, 2013 Fair enough. Comparing it to my M9P which I still have, you can't even hope to push it that far. Seriously, banding is not an issue for me even with my other systems. When it does, it's usually because I used an incorrect exposure. I don't expect the camera to compensate for my mistakes. Quite the contrary though, the M9-P is still magnificent. push it in post. As an overall wash I would say the M is approximately 1.5 stops 'better' than the M9, that's not revolutionary at all, just a small increment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 8, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 8, 2013 Quite the contrary though, the M9-P is still magnificent. push it in post. As an overall wash I would say the M is approximately 1.5 stops 'better' than the M9, that's not revolutionary at all, just a small increment. Yeah, I agree. You can only really compare it to the M9, which itself was hugely behind the pack when it was released in terms of high ISO. They are behind in everything software, electronic etc. In the things they're good at they're in front, optics, rangefinder. As the perfect M9 though, the M240 is fantastic. Everything I always wanted the M9 to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 8, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 8, 2013 I posted some examples of this in April...... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/278105-comparison-m9-m240-6.html#post2368076 Even with auto exposure and a high iso limit I have very few images at 3200 (and virtually none at 6400). You have fast Leica lenses and can hand-hold to sub 1/focal length with a Rangefinder so avoidance is the best solution. I cannot find any of my images which were properly exposed that have banding noticeable enough to make them 'unusable'...... LR gets rid of it ....... and to be honest it's firmware processing in-camera that gives the majority of the competition the 'high iso superiority' edge over Leica.... but we have to do it ourselves in PP. If your forte is photographing black cats in coal bunkers at night then you have a problem.... From a practical point of view I don't find it an 'issue'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted October 9, 2013 Then it you pushed it by, say, 2 EV you've got the equivalent of a 12,800 iso file. Try do do this with an M9. Not that bad if you ask me. Not the intention, but rather wanting to underexpose for a given scene and having banding issues resulting down to ISO 2500 making it rather limiting. I'm loving the new M for sure, just a little disappointed they couldn't make inroads into a really useable high ISO feature as many other have successfully done. Still, glad to hear its not my M that's also 'suffering' the 'issues'. Thank you all for your comments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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