What to check when buying this M4-P

[Jessestr]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi guys

 

I can buy two M4's an M4-2 which is in slightly worse condition. But it comes with warrantee. (30 days)

 

However I can get another M4-P for 50 euros more ($75) which is in very good condition. The only thing that I don't know is how to check it if needs CLA. The guy says its barely used (as you can see on the pictures). But still how can I check if it's a good buy when I pick it up?

 

Photo's are pictures of the actual item... So you can tell it's good looking. But what exactly do I have to check if the insides are good and don't need CLA?

 

Many thanks

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Orient XI]

The last M4-P's were made about 26 years ago; light use means that the lubricants have probably dried up giving an inaccurate shutter. Paradoxically, medium use gives a better chance of a working camera.

[250swb]

You can only really tell by running a film through it. But it has clues that somebody has cared for it, some tape to stop the strap rubbing, the 'soft release' suggests they are a bit more serious as a photographer.

 

So if they say it is in good condition they may well be telling the truth. I don't think it is a given that old grease means it will inevitably need a CLA, but all shutter speeds should be checked and of course the focus accuracy with one of your lenses, not the sellers lens even if on loan to test the camera with. I say this because over the years people have had the mad idea that the body should be adjusted rather than the lens. In fact both should be checked, but it does mean there are a lot of M bodies around that have been made to work with a particular lens which may itself have been the culprit for mis-focusing. So if you know your lens is good you'll know if the body is out of adjustment.

 

Steve

[Jessestr]

This is the M4-2. Slighty damaged but warranty and the seller is an well known second hand dealer. He says the camera is working just fine.

 

So it's the question.. what one should I get.

The one with the warranty is slighty cheaper too (because of the looks I guess)

 

Jesse

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[earleygallery]

I'd go with the M4-p out of those two.

 

If you're not sure then hold on, there's no shortage of used M bodies about. As said, you can only tell for sure if the camera is OK by physical inspection and a test film.

 

Obvious things to check are that the shutter blinds are in good order (you won't always spot if there's a pinhole though until you use it), the rangefinder is aligned (checking with a lens on the camera focussed at inifinity), the shutter is working OK (basic test counting a second and checking for the sound it makes at 1/15th - if you don't know what I mean its hard to describe but it should 'bounce' a couple of times), and overall condition functionality of components/mechanics.

 

If the M4p doesn't have warranty at least you could ask the seller to agree to a return/refund if you find any serious fault with the camera?

[Jessestr]

I'd go with the M4-p out of those two.

 

If you're not sure then hold on, there's no shortage of used M bodies about. As said, you can only tell for sure if the camera is OK by physical inspection and a test film.

 

Obvious things to check are that the shutter blinds are in good order (you won't always spot if there's a pinhole though until you use it), the rangefinder is aligned (checking with a lens on the camera focussed at inifinity), the shutter is working OK (basic test counting a second and checking for the sound it makes at 1/15th - if you don't know what I mean its hard to describe but it should 'bounce' a couple of times), and overall condition functionality of components/mechanics.

 

If the M4p doesn't have warranty at least you could ask the seller to agree to a return/refund if you find any serious fault with the camera?

 

Thanks for your opinion. I went for the M4-2 as it has warranty and I can return it if it's bad. He says everything is okay with the camera, it's a good dealer, so I believe him. If sometihng's bad I can still return it and get the M4-P, I guess.

 

The guy with the M4-P is just a guy who bought it for €800 and now selling it for €500, he never really used it so I think the other is kind of a better deal, like the comment above, the lubricants could be dried.

 

I will test the shutter, I know what you are saying. There's a video on YouTube with the exact sound, I'm going to test the camera, will check for pinholes. How can i exactly test the rangefinder system? Focus infinity on something far away?

 

[wattsy]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The flash shoe looks a little cock-eyed on the M4-P but for €50 extra I'd certainly prefer this body to the "slightly damaged" M4-2. Of course, appearances can be deceptive and are not an infallible guide to whether a CLA is needed or not. I tend to agree with James - if you are unsure about these bodies, it would be sensible to wait until something else comes along.

[Jessestr]

The flash shoe looks a little cock-eyed on the M4-P but for €50 extra I'd certainly prefer this body to the "slightly damaged" M4-2. Of course, appearances can be deceptive and are not an infallible guide to whether a CLA is needed or not. I tend to agree with James - if you are unsure about these bodies, it would be sensible to wait until something else comes along.

 

I'malways scared when buying things like this. It just safer to know that I have the warranty and it will be fixed if there is something wrong.

 

I asked the M4-P guy and he said no returns so if it needs CLA I have to pay an extra €210 for the CLA. If the M4-2 needs CLA I can just return it, and they will get it fixed. I get a month warranty, so that seems long enough to put some film into it and check everything.

 

Will be testing the lens with a Carl Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f1.5

 

The second hand dealer said this to me:

 

If there would be something unexpected wrong with the camera, return it to us, we will get it fixed or if the repair got too many problems you sipmly get your money back.

 

Which for me is ideal. I don't have to worry about it if it's bad. He sells a lot of analog Leica M's (http://www.secondhandcamera.nl/webpages/Leica.html)

[Jessestr]

However all you guys say I should get the M4-P. It's the only one I can test in real life. So if it doesn't meet my conditions I can leave it there.

 

I made this checklist.. Something that should be added?

 

1. Check if inside is clean, no rust or mud

2. Shine flashlight in front and open the back, check if there is light leaking. So you don’t have any pinholes.

3. The advance should be nice and smooth

4. Slow shutter speeds should be good.

a. Do a one second shutter, check if it’s one second

b. Shutter closed fully?

c. Winding sound after the shutter?

5. Check if viewfinder is clear

a. No separation, brown lines around frameline is bad

b. Edges should be in good shape, no separation (bad glue - > expensive)

6. Check the rangefinder mirror, should be nice and reflective and in good shape

7. Rangefinderpatch should be bright and clear