waiting for the R to M adapter

[masjah]

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Rick,

 

My son is an engineer working for a major UK engineering company. He is in charge of liaison between the UK and their Chinese component and sub assembly manufacturers. Many of the components are for high pressure hydraulic control, so have to be made to a high level of precision and consistency.

 

I showed him pictures of the R to M and explained what it did and gave him an estimate of the required precision (.001mm and .001º parallelicity.) He reckoned one of his factories if you gave them the CAD/CAM drawings, could have it prototyped within two days, ready to be couriered back to the UK for approval. By the end of the week, they would have the CNC files written, a production plan and the item costed. Subject to availability of the raw materials/correct spec metal billets, they could start production the next week. The slowest part of the process would be plating the various components but still only a few hours delay.

 

Maybe Leica should visit one of these high tech Chinese factories to see how it should be done.

 

Wilson

 

Absolutely eye-opening Wilson! The only query I would have is whether the quantities which Leica would wish to order would be too small for the set-up costs, or is this high precision, relatively low volume application precisely where computerised manufacturing techniques can come into their own in economic terms?

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[wlaidlaw]

Absolutely eye-opening Wilson! The only query I would have is whether the quantities which Leica would wish to order would be too small for the set-up costs, or is this high precision, relatively low volume application precisely where computerised manufacturing techniques can come into their own in economic terms?

 

John,

 

I think a typical order might be for say 200 to 500 fully machined hydraulic valve control blocks, which might well be made up from a single to 5 layers, all of which have to marry perfectly to make the final item. The valves might then be assembled in China or in the UK. Compared with the complexity of these valve control blocks, the R to M is a very simple bit of kit.

 

Wilson

[thighslapper]

I have visions of two old men in a shed behind the factory at Solms doing a bit of filing and machining...... in between frequent rests for schnapps and reminiscences of the old days when they didn't have to work so hard ....

[marknorton]

Mine has duly arrived and of course the quality and presentation are excellent.

 

That said, it's nothing more than a machined barrel (anodised, red bump, white script) with a normal coded M male mount on the back and a female R mount on the front. The foot is also nicely made but the plastic plug plate which fits in its place is quite difficult to remove (so, good, it won't fall out). I can see there being a case for having two of these, one with the foot, one without, depending on the lenses you use because adding/removing the foot if you feel you need to is not the work of a moment.

 

I've spent a couple of hours this morning playing with the lenses I have (28-90, 80-200, 21-35, 60 macro, 100 macro, 80 Summilux, APO 180, APO 2X, Macro Adapter) and they are all a pleasure to use. The good news is that they push the boundaries of the M system, and the 100 in particular has relegated the 90mm Macro Elmar to curiosity status though I suppose it still has a role if you are travelling light.

 

Doing macro with live view is as good as you would expect.

 

I don't begin to understand why this key accessory of the M has taken so long to arrive and I hope those of you still waiting will get yours soon.

[wlaidlaw]

Mark,

 

Have Leica managed to have the rotating rear mount turn without too much force but yet not have any play. All the various rotating mounts I have on different Leica devices/adapters have some degree of play (maybe due to wear). I don’t know if it is just a sleeve with the tripod mount which rotates or the rear mount relative to the rest of the adapter, like previous adapters (OUBIO, Televit etc).

 

Wilson

[wattsy]

Maybe Leica should visit one of these high tech Chinese factories to see how it should be done.

 

Or maybe they shouldn't. Perhaps Leica prefer to have the adaptor, like many of their accessories, manufactured locally.

[marknorton]

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Mark,

 

Have Leica managed to have the rotating rear mount turn without too much force but yet not have any play. All the various rotating mounts I have on different Leica devices/adapters have some degree of play (maybe due to wear). I don’t know if it is just a sleeve with the tripod mount which rotates or the rear mount relative to the rest of the adapter, like previous adapters (OUBIO, Televit etc).

 

Wilson

 

Wilson, both the front and rear lens mounts are fixed to the barrel, as is the tripod foot when you install it. The tripod foot does not rotate. In all respects, it's like a relocated tripod thread from the original on the camera.

[wlaidlaw]

Or maybe they shouldn't. Perhaps Leica prefer to have the adaptor, like many of their accessories, manufactured locally.

 

Ian,

 

If they were actually manufacturing it in the required quantities and delivering in a timely manner I would agree with you. Sadly they have fallen woefully short in both categories. As long as it is made to the correct quality, I could not care where it is made and after 15+ months of waiting, my patience with Leica is stretched very thin.

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

Wilson, both the front and rear lens mounts are fixed to the barrel, as is the tripod foot when you install it. The tripod foot does not rotate. In all respects, it's like a relocated tripod thread from the original on the camera.

 

I thought you could release a catch, so that with the adapter connected to a tripod, you could rotate the camera into portrait mode.

 

Wilson

[Leicaiste]

I can see there being a case for having two of these, one with the foot, one without, depending on the lenses you use because adding/removing the foot if you feel you need to is not the work of a moment.

 

This is exactly what I intend to do.

 

One adapter + foot + Arca Swiss mount adapter and one plain adapter for lenses equipped with a tripod mount or used handheld.

 

But it is really to bad there is no rotating part. Anyway for what I know about the foot it is attached to close of the camera to rotate easily on a tripod.

[marknorton]

I thought you could release a catch, so that with the adapter connected to a tripod, you could rotate the camera into portrait mode.

 

Wilson

 

I'm afraid not, the whole thing is nicely solid.

[masjah]

I'm afraid not, the whole thing is nicely solid.

 

All being well, I intend to use my Manfrotto angle bracket (though of course the 280/4 R lens rotates in its own tripod foot.

[wlaidlaw]

If only David Llado of Leitax was making his permanent R to M adapters, I would cancel my Leica R to M and buy a pair of those instead. They have been “out of stock” since I returned mine to David, pointing out that the coding pits were a long way off being correctly placed. I am waiting for a reply from him if he ever intends making these again, with the coding pits correctly aligned.

 

Wilson

[marknorton]

John, I think that's best, you don't really want the extra weight and complexity of a rotating mount with you all the time.

 

That 280mm is quite a beast and there's one around the place on sale for £5995. I see from an old price list (Jan 2009, one of the last) that it sold then for £3807. Looking at the list, I had quite forgotten how expensive R lenses were and the list I have is when VAT was "only" 15%.

[masjah]

John, I think that's best, you don't really want the extra weight and complexity of a rotating mount with you all the time.

 

That 280mm is quite a beast and there's one around the place on sale for £5995. I see from an old price list (Jan 2009, one of the last) that it sold then for £3807. Looking at the list, I had quite forgotten how expensive R lenses were and the list I have is when VAT was "only" 15%.

 

Mark, I continue to be open-mouthed at the eye-watering prices of some of the R lenses - sometimes significantly higher than the brand new list price when production ceased. I bought a lot of mine "ex demo" with full Leica Passport warranty, though I got my 280/4 second-hand. I think the bubble is bound to burst at some time in the future, but it doesn't worry me as I didn't buy them to make money.

[jcraf]

I think the bubble is bound to burst at some time in the future, but it doesn't worry me as I didn't buy them to make money.

Off topic slightly, but I detect that the Noctilux f1.0 'bubble' has a slow puncture now, rather than bursting.

 

Of course the 80mm Summilux-R will continue to rocket skyward in value, especially for mint boxed ROM versions......;-))

[wlaidlaw]

Off topic slightly, but I detect that the Noctilux f1.0 'bubble' has a slow puncture now, rather than bursting.

 

Of course the 80mm Summilux-R will continue to rocket skyward in value, especially for mint boxed ROM versions......;-))

 

John,

 

Just like the inflated prices for the Vario Elmarit 28-90, I still don’t know why folks are not buying the much cheaper but just as good Zeiss Contax equivalents. A nice 85/f1.4 Planar, just as good as the 80 Summilux can be found for £500 to £700. I bought a mint unused Vario Sonnar 28-85 for £300, about 1/10th of what I would have had to pay for an equivalent Vario Elmarit. I stupidly sold my Zeiss Anniversary 85/f1.2 Planar when I got rid of all my Contax SLR equipment. That is the one to find and keep but they are even more costly than the 80 Summilux. The Novoflex Contax to Leica M works very well and can be coded 110111 to access the R menu.

 

Wilson

[algrove]

The Leica R-M adapters I have seen pictures of show "Made in Portugal" on the base so one can assume it is made in the Leica factory.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[satijntje]

The Leica R-M adapters I have seen pictures of show "Made in Portugal" on the base so one can assume it is made in the Leica factory.

 

Yes, it is made by leica themself.

 

John

[Rick]

Rick,

 

My son is an engineer working for a major UK engineering company. He is in charge of liaison between the UK and their Chinese component and sub assembly manufacturers. Many of the components are for high pressure hydraulic control, so have to be made to a high level of precision and consistency.

 

I showed him pictures of the R to M and explained what it did and gave him an estimate of the required precision (.001mm and .001º parallelicity.) He reckoned one of his factories if you gave them the CAD/CAM drawings, could have it prototyped within two days, ready to be couriered back to the UK for approval. By the end of the week, they would have the CNC files written, a production plan and the item costed. Subject to availability of the raw materials/correct spec metal billets, they could start production the next week. The slowest part of the process would be plating the various components but still only a few hours delay.

 

Maybe Leica should visit one of these high tech Chinese factories to see how it should be done.

 

Wilson

 

I agree that the amount of time it has taken for Leica on this project is curious, to say the least. My point was that a certain degree of precision is required that was unappreciated by myself until, the A7R come on my radar and it has been brought to my attention that the Chinese adaptors and others are not seeming to be up to spec. I did not understand how critical these things actually were.

 

I have patients that work in the Seattle area in machine shops that are regularly sent parts from Boeing that failed inspection. These parts are from other countries (including Germany) that have to be re-machined to be brought up to spec before they can pass inspection for use on the Boeing jet liners. Same thing is true for the turbofans in the Engines (not made by Boeing). Not everyone is up to the task.