elgenper Posted July 31, 2013 Share #41 Posted July 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since there are so many unknowns, it is a mistake to plan too much ahead.... Some 15 years ago I started to worry about being ´properly equipped´ with camera gear after my retirement (which was then at least 5 years into the future) and the ensuing drop in income. So I invested in a complete renewal of my MF arsenal, and bought a Hasselblad 501 C with three excellent lenses, several film backs & c. This was gear that would last forever, I thought. What happened? First, that retirement became a reality. Then, various health problems made it all but impossible to carry all that stuff around. Also, I got interested in the potential for digital imagery; at that time it wasn´t quite there, really, but I saw it coming in the near future. And, since I was not alone in reading the writing on the wall, the resale value of my gear dropped sharply. I soon found out that I could still afford a few things; it´s a matter of priorities in any case. So, after quite a few different sets of digital gear, I finally smashed the piggy-bank and got myself an M9 with (presently and finally....) three excellent lenses. And that´s it for now: that´s what I´ll use for the *foreseeable* future. Could I have bought that gear instead of the Hasselblad to begin with? Obviously not. Will it last as long as I can use it? Nobody knows. Do I worry? Not really, I´m busy shooting.... And, if it becomes necessary, I´ll find a way to replace it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 31, 2013 Posted July 31, 2013 Hi elgenper, Take a look here Digital Leica Lifespan?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Torquinian Posted August 2, 2013 Share #42 Posted August 2, 2013 Leica says, that they repair a M camera mimimum 10 years after production end (exception: the M8 monitor). Elmar There was a letter in Amateur Photographer recently about a M8 that failed after 1900 shutter actuations and the factory said it was not repairable. Presumably that was the monitor that you referred to. He got no compensation as it was just out of the guarantee.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted August 2, 2013 Share #43 Posted August 2, 2013 ................. In a recent interview with Leica's Dr Kaufman, there are monochrome options to be announced in September and in the Spring of 2014. Might be worth the wait to find out. Interview with Dr. Andreas Kaufman | Leica News & Rumors He's reported as saying that 'New products might be announced this fall and next spring.' He didn't say that they would definitely be Monochroms though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted August 2, 2013 Share #44 Posted August 2, 2013 Addressing the OP's lifespan concerns, the only statement from Leica was as reported by Elmars in post 10. After the M8 LCD issue they said they were aiming for '10yrs after production ends', by stockpiling/ordering sufficient parts inventory whilst components were still available. Armed with that knowledge, Mark's 10-year cost write-down method (post 17) seems sensible. If some residual value return is preferred however, then NJH's option of buying early in a product cycle and selling sooner rather than later (post 39) offers an alternative. With cheaper gear though, new prices often fall quite quickly after the initial GAS rush. Take the just announced Panasonic GX7 (or other recent Oly/Fuji/Nex kit circa £1000). £819 body only at launch but likely to be listed at, what, £600 pounds or so in six-months time? Used prices then suffer accordingly of course. Perhaps the old adage of investing in good glass still works........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucisPictor Posted August 2, 2013 Share #45 Posted August 2, 2013 I think this: For a digital system camera, that seems to be more like one upgrade every 6 years ... or one every 3 years if you give way to marketing. Your resistance to marketing is likely to determine the lifespan limit on your Monochrom. ... is not longer as true as it used to be. My Nikon D1 is more than 12 years old and still going strong, but I would not want to use it as my primary cam today. The sensor is just not capable enough. My Canon EOS 5D is more than 6 years old now but I still use it with pleasure and I am sure I will use it in 6 years time because it's good enough for me, it offers all I need. The same is true for my M8. I can't see a future in which I need more than 10 or 12 very good MPix. So marketing does not have that strong an influence on me any more. OK, I do own a NEX-7 and the new Lumix also makes me drool but just because I can "play" with it, not because I would need that high resolution. I would not have bought another DSLR with 24 MPix. If I use my M8 for 15 years, it will be approx. 20 years old by then - that would be OK for me. THEN I might think about buying another M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 28, 2015 Share #46 Posted March 28, 2015 Hi Lacapino, May I advance a theory? A superbly made mechanical camera lasts about 75 years; a superbly made electronic one should last at least 30. The 75 years comes from observation of the “classic camera” world. Any regularly used camera will need occasional servicing ... but there comes a time when that need becomes too frequent for the camera to be suitable for regular use. There are still intermittent users of a Rolleiflex Standard Leverwind (I’m one) or of a Leica Model A; but a pre-War camera in regular use tends to be a Leica III or a Rolleiflex Automat; and a new classic-camera user would be wise to start with a Contax IIa, a Leica IIIc, or a Rolleiflex Automat X. The 30 years comes from observing Nikon. The marketplace pressure of the late 1970s brought us a stream of lightweight electronic plastic cameras, which probably created the classic-camera world as a reaction, and which did have limited lifespans. The Nikon F3 of 1980 had to use electronics to be affordable, so Nikon had to convince sceptical photojournalists that an electronic shutter and an LCD could coexist with durability. They succeeded. Nikon F3s of the 1980s are still going strong. Leica’s build quality is at least as good as Nikon’s, so I doubt whether you need to worry too much about the lifespan of a Monochrom. Long before a superbly made camera becomes frail, it seems out-of-date; and the marketplace trumpets what seem to be improvements. A mechanical-Leica user could well have upgraded his or her IIIc to an M3, then to an M4 for ease of loading, and an MP for light-metering. Three upgrades in 60 years. For a digital system camera, that seems to be more like one upgrade every 6 years ... or one every 3 years if you give way to marketing. Your resistance to marketing is likely to determine the lifespan limit on your Monochrom. Later, Dr Owl Yes, I realize this is an ancient thread. However, I have been wondering this about the flagship M-P 240 and the standard M240: How long can we expect in terms of a useful or serviceable life span from these cameras? If I still have my M240 nine years after the cessation of production, it sounds like shipping it off to Leica for an overhaul would be a good idea, since they will make repair parts available for ten years after production has ended. Getting the camera returned to new specs at that point would give it a new lease on life; whether or not doing so would make economic sense or not remains to be seen. If not, I'm okay with the theorized useful life (above) of 30 years. Thoughts?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
}{B Posted March 29, 2015 Share #47 Posted March 29, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica can state an intention to service its cameras for ten years after production ends but they are in the hands of their suppliers. If a part is no longer available and if a camera sent for repair requires that part then they cannot keep to that aspiration. The older a digital camera is the more likely it is that technology has moved on and some part or parts are no longer available. Unless Leica is going to stock enough spares to meet this commitment or tie its suppliers into this time frame then the risk increases every year that passes after production ceases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted March 29, 2015 Share #48 Posted March 29, 2015 At some point it becomes cheaper to buy a replacement on Ebay than to repair a camera. Other times you can find the obsolete parts from the cameras taken back on exchange for the new ones. I doubt Leica is just tossing out those M8 and M9 bodies being taken back for trade-up to the latest model. My oldest/working DSLR is from 1993. I bought a second non-working unit for parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 29, 2015 Share #49 Posted March 29, 2015 My guess is that the m240 lasts longer then the equivalent analogue camera. But I have much more faith in electronics that never wear vs gears and wheels that do ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted March 29, 2015 Share #50 Posted March 29, 2015 My Leica M3 will long outlast my M Monochrom and every other digital camera that I own, and it is already 57 years old. Seems only fair to give those don't-stand-a-chance electronics at least a 50 year advantage, but that does not even the odds. I have not booted my CP/m machine in a while. But the Pentium Pro is doing fine. Same with the 17-year old Pentium-II laptop. On the latter- the three battery packs hold a full charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 29, 2015 Share #51 Posted March 29, 2015 My guess is that the m240 lasts longer then the equivalent analogue camera. But I have much more faith in electronics that never wear vs gears and wheels that do ... Really? So what happens when some crucial part for the M240 is no longer available? Like the LCD for the M8? It's fair to assume that M screens will become obsolete too - break yours and your M is pretty much a paperweight. Batteries for some cameras are hard to find now too - DMR replacements? Those cogs and gears can fail too - but any competent metalworker can fashion a replacement. Not so easy to do with electronics. However, ultimately, digital cameras become uneconomical to repair. If it was going to cost you more to repair an M8 than the cost of a s/h M what would you do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 29, 2015 Share #52 Posted March 29, 2015 Really? So what happens when some crucial part for the M240 is no longer available? Like the LCD for the M8? It's fair to assume that M screens will become obsolete too - break yours and your M is pretty much a paperweight. Batteries for some cameras are hard to find now too - DMR replacements? Those cogs and gears can fail too - but any competent metalworker can fashion a replacement. Not so easy to do with electronics. However, ultimately, digital cameras become uneconomical to repair. If it was going to cost you more to repair an M8 than the cost of a s/h M what would you do? Replace - but I think that just using it as long as it works - which may well be a very long time, if previous experiences with electronics are anything to go with- is better than gloom and doom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smb Posted March 29, 2015 Share #53 Posted March 29, 2015 You can not accurately determine how long something will last until it has been time tested. Mechanical cameras from the 1930's can still be used ergo 80+ years. I have a mechanical clock made in 1890 that keeps the accurate time and chimes correctly on the hour and half hour. 125+ years on a mechanical clock. Albums and cds will function as long as there are mechanisms to play them. A few years ago it was impossible to find a turntable. Now my local Best Buy as 10 in stock. Going back to cameras what counts is the availability of the film and processing. As for digital cameras you have a twofold consideration. 1. How long will the mechanism last? and 2. How long will the supporting system last (i.e. computers and cards.)? And, will they be available in the future. Most small digital cameras purchased in the past have been supplanted by the camera phone. Here we have a third issue: Will future technology make a 1k camera as good as a 7k camera (using the same lenses)? My first VCR cost close to $700 while today I can purchase a Blu-Ray player for less than $100 and do I need one with companies offering downloads? Now we come to the fourth issue of relevancy. Will an expensive camera be relevant the future generations and will it be cost effective for companies to produce them? Essentially, if you can afford 7k+ for a camera much like a sports car where you do not ask how much does it cost to repair should you be asking how long will it last? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 29, 2015 Share #54 Posted March 29, 2015 Replace - but I think that just using it as long as it works - which may well be a very long time, if previous experiences with electronics are anything to go with- is better than gloom and doom. Replace the M8 screen? That simply can't be done. My point is that the mechanical body will invariably outlast the digital ones. Whatever is practical/reasonable is another question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 29, 2015 Share #55 Posted March 29, 2015 Replace the camera... Worrying about the future is a bleak and useless exercise... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 29, 2015 Share #56 Posted March 29, 2015 Replace the camera...Worrying about the future is bleak and useless exercise... Agreed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted March 30, 2015 Share #57 Posted March 30, 2015 I love the M9. To resolve my worries about its life expectancy, I have a brand new ME in storage, taken out only for quarterly scheduled exercise. I agree with an earlier post - the main threat to the M9 is a new version with really significant IQ improvements - if even possible, and a what cost? Comparison RAW files of M9 vs. 240 caused no temptation whatsoever. Neither did the supposed bells and whistles. In other words, a 'back up'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted March 30, 2015 Share #58 Posted March 30, 2015 Hi, my Son it still using my original Leica/Fuji digitals.. (1mp) ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted March 30, 2015 Share #59 Posted March 30, 2015 I think it boils down to whether you are looking for a special camera to keep for life or whether you are looking for a tool to do a particular job. The two differing viewpoints expressed here are the genesis of heaven only knows how many posts on this forum. s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 30, 2015 Share #60 Posted March 30, 2015 The two differing viewpoints expressed here are the genesis of heaven only knows how many posts on this forum. s-a Billions and billions, at a bare minimum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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