Guest Posted July 20, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just another Elmar fake? Doesn't the distance knob look more like an Industar one? The rare black Elmar 3.5-50mm built for the Swedish Army in the 1950's was a post-WWII design. Have there been any black Elmars in earlier times or is this just another Russian fake? The following three pictures show no serial-no. For comparison a photo from a Swedish Army IIIf with black Elmar was added: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/209223-just-another-elmar-fake/?do=findComment&comment=2378832'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2013 Posted July 20, 2013 Hi Guest, Take a look here Just another Elmar fake?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted July 20, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 20, 2013 Fake, look Eastward and you'll find the factory... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted July 20, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 20, 2013 Fake, look Eastward and you'll find the factory... definitely:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyelm Posted July 21, 2013 Share #4 Posted July 21, 2013 Looks like an Industar-22. The infinity lock button is the give-away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2013 Share #5 Posted July 21, 2013 Looks like an Industar-22. The infinity lock button is the give-away. Yes, Industar I presumed too because of the knob for adjustment of the distance. On my bookshelf there are a good dozen books about Leica, but still none about copies. The lens shown is of course offered only as a product of Leica and without a single hint to a copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted July 21, 2013 Share #6 Posted July 21, 2013 Two things that make me a bit cautious in saying this is russian origin: barell has 2 cut offs, never seen neither on Elmar nor any FED/Industar and distance scale engravings on mounting flange. As far as I have it my memory Russians used slightly different font. But I would need to compare it with my species at home, in few days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 21, 2013 Share #7 Posted July 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, there is a small chance that it is a Leitz original, painted by 3rd party (in no way is one of the original black "swedish" Elmars).... but is the knob that smell Russian to me... and there is no sign of s/n, too, and some other visual details... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 21, 2013 Well, there is a small chance that it is a Leitz original, painted by 3rd party (in no way is one of the original black "swedish" Elmars).... but is the knob that smell Russian to me... and there is no sign of s/n, too, and some other visual details... Yes, the black 'Elmar' must be considerably elder than the 'Swedish' Elmars of 1956. Maybe old Leica lenses were installed in a Industar tube? Or a defective knob of the distance setting was replaced by the knob of a Industar? Were there never requests for black Elmars matching black Leicas before 1956? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted July 21, 2013 Share #9 Posted July 21, 2013 To tell you the variant n. of the repaint "russian" lens we need a photo of depth o field scale, a photo of distance scale till the end, a detailed photo of the mount ring (bottom), a photo of the inner diaphram halfway closed (we need to see the position and shape). cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2013 Share #10 Posted July 22, 2013 To tell you the variant n. of the repaint "russian" lens we need a photo of depth o field scale, a photo of distance scale till the end, a detailed photo of the mount ring (bottom), a photo of the inner diaphram halfway closed (we need to see the position and shape). cheers Probably the seller will have little interest in further clarification. Therefore I would have to buy the lens to show more photos. After the clear warnings of our experts, this is far too risky. Let's see when and where the lens appears again. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted July 22, 2013 Share #11 Posted July 22, 2013 Probably the seller will have little interest in further clarification.Therefore I would have to buy the lens to show more photos. After the clear warnings of our experts, this is far too risky. Let's see when and where the lens appears again. Thanks Well done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 22, 2013 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2013 If the extra photo of the Swedish IIIf is the definitive model then the obvious clue is that the aperture numbers do not match with the featured lens. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orient XI Posted July 23, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 23, 2013 If the extra photo of the Swedish IIIf is the definitive model then the obvious clue is that the aperture numbers do not match with the featured lens. Steve Yes, but one would expect a pre-war Elmar to carry the "continental" aperture scale (3.5, 4.5, 6.3, 9, 12.5, 18) as opposed to the post-war international scale (3.5, 4, 5.6, 8 …). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 23, 2013 Share #14 Posted July 23, 2013 Which is why I said 'if' it is a definitive model. But as the Swedish Army IIIF in question is a post war camera anyway (as already noted it is 1956), why are you defending pre war markings on the lens? Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 23, 2013 Share #15 Posted July 23, 2013 Steve, the Swedish IIIf was quoted to show that original black Elmars have been produced by Leitz. This was followed by my question if there had been produced any black Elmars before 1956 by Leitz. If not, the black Elmar with the old aperture numbers might be a fake or whatever, but not an original lens made by Leitz. Greetings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 23, 2013 Share #16 Posted July 23, 2013 No I don't think Leica made black versions before the Swedish version, additionally I don't think there were any 5cm Elmars with spanner notches cut into the front element retaining ring as can be seen in the photo, as far as I understand they all had the retaining ring recessed inside the front barrel. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted July 23, 2013 Share #17 Posted July 23, 2013 No I don't think Leica made black versions before the Swedish version, additionally I don't think there were any 5cm Elmars with spanner notches cut into the front element retaining ring as can be seen in the photo, as far as I understand they all had the retaining ring recessed inside the front barrel. Steve Yes... I just checked a pair of old Elmars of mine... is one more detail that tends to forgery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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