Rick Posted August 31, 2013 Share #301 Posted August 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks. Yes, if it is just a flare. I would suspect flare. The effect can be completely removed by shading the front element. When the front element is shaded (even or especially from ambient outdoor light) the image becomes instantly deep in contrast. I also might consider that it is flare from the floor of the camera box or the inside walls of the lens because it seems to be decentered vertically (credit to Andy), but I haven't seen enough images to be sure it is vertically decentered. But, in any event, I believe it is flare not a reflection off the sensor. Further, sensor reflections are different, and are a different color. They are characteristically "sensor-color." Also, helged demonstrated that when shooting out of a window from a relatively dark environment, the effect is much reduced from what is evident when outside in a higher lighting condition. His lens will do the same if he takes it outside, I'm almost completely convinced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 31, 2013 Posted August 31, 2013 Hi Rick, Take a look here APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k-hawinkler Posted August 31, 2013 Share #302 Posted August 31, 2013 Rick, Many thanks for your feedback. Always appreciated. I had this problem in mind. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/151501-bellows-ii-16598j-280mm-telyt-5.html Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410199'>More sharing options...
lct Posted August 31, 2013 Share #303 Posted August 31, 2013 Ordinary flare with lenses from the sixties like the Telyt 280/4.8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajamies Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share #304 Posted September 1, 2013 Erik Gunst Lund: "Threads like this are a little sad to see here on the Forum IMHO, I would think the level of expertiece would be a lttle higher as to no just feed the urban legends." algrove: “You guys have anything better to do than to put down a perfect lens? You know who you are.” Shame on you, Rick Leica ... My lens is still in Solms, and so is my Leica M, and so are my Noctilux plus all my other M lenses. Looking forward to getting back a perfect 50 AA like Jim Grover did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.KOL Posted September 1, 2013 Share #305 Posted September 1, 2013 I will pick up my M on Tuesday and very happy to see this discussion here. It helped me to solve one problem: I will not order APO 50/2 but save some money and buy 50/1.4 Lux. To me it seems clear that even APO 50/2 is probably a great lense, it is not yet developed to the end. Best, KOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 1, 2013 Share #306 Posted September 1, 2013 Yes, your lens exhibits central flare as well. I'm afraid this is a design flaw in the lens. I am certain now that they all exhibit this flare. It is the signature-flare of the APO 50. Sorry, I would return it. I just returned from returning mine. I'm afraid Karabe laid an egg. ????? Helgeds little experiment shows quite conclusively that it is an endemic problem with all of these Leica 50mm lenses and that if anything a 'good' APO 50 is in fact less affected than it's older and cheaper brothers...... In the unfortunate event that I get a 'bad' one I will just be returning it to Solms for an unaffected one.... this is clearly an alignment/assembly issue rather than a design fault...... ..... remember the threads originally indicating it was a bu**er to make and that a large % were rejected at QC ? ..... hence the delays in it appearing and the low volume .... I'm sure the % of these with issues will diminish with time....... ..... not the first thread with issues about Leicas high quality products but low quality control...... AND...... I hardly ever use over f8 ...... as it doesn't achieve a great deal more in DOF........ and if high light levels are an issue there are always ND filters which are cheap and easy to use... I wouldn't dump this lens just for this issue......... although considering the price the duds should heve been weeded out before sale ..... and Leica must have been aware of this for some time.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2013 Share #307 Posted September 1, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why those little images instead of usual trees with the sky upon them? I will begin to think that i could possibly be reassured eventually when i see images like Rick's w/o the ugly CVF in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 1, 2013 Share #308 Posted September 1, 2013 Why those little images instead of usual trees with the sky upon them? I will begin to think that i could possibly be reassured eventually when i see images like Rick's w/o the ugly CVF in the middle. ....... yes .... but like most things ..... people only start ferreting around in forums when they find a problem , so it is impossible to say how many lenses are out there without central veiling that is a noticeable issue in everyday photography.... ..... there is a bug in the M240 firmware that labels all the SD folders as created in 2047 ..... but you would never know unless you went looking for it as it is invisible in normal use and as such has never been posted ().... .... not a perfect analogy, but it's the same idea... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2013 Share #309 Posted September 1, 2013 OK my friend but neither you nor me can be sure if CVF is a design flaw or a fixable problem so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted September 1, 2013 Share #310 Posted September 1, 2013 Also, helged demonstrated that when shooting out of a window from a relatively dark environment, the effect is much reduced from what is evident when outside in a higher lighting condition. His lens will do the same if he takes it outside, I'm almost completely convinced. Well - I do not agree. I have had the lens for months and I am an outdoor shooter , and the APO-50 is less flare prone/has less loss of central contrast compared to the latest version of Summilux (and the latest version of the non-APO Summicron). I do understand that this cannot be taken as a fact given differences between lenses - but this is at least the case for the copies I have access to. Yes, some of the APO-50 lenses have problems (and those are the ones seen in threads like this), but I am quite sure that there are happy owners around. Like me. That being said - we all hope that Leica is able to sort this out to the best for all existing and potential owners! Outdoor scene with the lens pointing towards the sun but with the sun hidden by thin clouds. So a very strong front-lit scene. M240; handheld; f2; 50-APO first, then 50-Summilux. Outstanding contrast with the 50-APO. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410476'>More sharing options...
helged Posted September 1, 2013 Share #311 Posted September 1, 2013 As above, but with f5.6. Loss of contrast for both lenses, but 50-APO has more contrast than 50-Lux. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410481'>More sharing options...
helged Posted September 1, 2013 Share #312 Posted September 1, 2013 And finally, f16. Here the lenses are more comparable when it comes to loss of contrast. One difference is that the 50-Lux has less contrast (and a tendency of a blueish tint) throughout the image, whereas the APO-50 shows loss of contrast mainly in/near the centre of the image. But absolutely no "white central spot" with the APO-50 I have. A general remark that is not that evident from the small jpg-files posted here is outstanding micro contrast of the APO-50. Not to mention the smooth and gentle out-of-focus rendering of the lens (both in front and back of the focus plane). Beautiful! (although subjective, of course). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410499'>More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted September 1, 2013 Share #313 Posted September 1, 2013 Yes with the early 50mm Summicron lenses I agree. However not with the latest versions of the 50mm Summicrons. So far I have not seen any conclusive proper test shoving any abnormal behaviur from any of the current 50mm Summicrons. Both perform very well, no flare at all, loss of contranst for some angles when shooting close to the sun in the frame, yes but nothing alarming or anything a working photographer would not anticipate and imidiatly spot and compensate for. Threads like this are a little sad to see here on the Forum IMHO, I would think the level of expertiece would be a lttle higher as to no just feed the urban legends. Erik Gunst Lund:"Threads like this are a little sad to see here on the Forum IMHO, I would think the level of expertiece would be a lttle higher as to no just feed the urban legends." algrove: “You guys have anything better to do than to put down a perfect lens? You know who you are.” Shame on you, Rick Leica ... My lens is still in Solms, and so is my Leica M, and so are my Noctilux plus all my other M lenses. Looking forward to getting back a perfect 50 AA like Jim Grover did. You took my statement out of my post regarding 50mm Summicron flare, not 50mm APO. At that point this thread had some very unconvincing images regarding this! IMHO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 1, 2013 Share #314 Posted September 1, 2013 Thanks helged. Excellent demonstration! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2013 Share #315 Posted September 1, 2013 Helged with respect there are not enough dark parts in your pics. Would you mind to try again with scenes like Rick's or Melantye's below if you have some time? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410539'>More sharing options...
helged Posted September 1, 2013 Share #316 Posted September 1, 2013 Helged with respect there are not enough dark parts in your pics. Would you mind to try again with scenes like Rick's or Melantye's below if you have some time? Hmmm - not easy to show something that I have never seen (and I have tried, for instance http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/291544-apo-summicron-50-2-asph-central-8.html#post2462769). Than being said, I may search for a requested scene, but I am afraid it may take some time. And my guess is that the result will be negative, e.g., no low-contrast spot in the image... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saad Posted September 1, 2013 Share #317 Posted September 1, 2013 I have to hand it to you helged, the way you illustrate what you want to say is so good and helpful. I think you should become a lens reviewer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2013 Share #318 Posted September 1, 2013 Hmmm - not easy to show something that I have never seen (and I have tried, for instance http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/291544-apo-summicron-50-2-asph-central-8.html#post2462769). Than being said, I may search for a requested scene, but I am afraid it may take some time. And my guess is that the result will be negative, e.g., no low-contrast spot in the image... I would be glad to lend you my garden but i'm in Normandy sorry... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410571'>More sharing options...
lct Posted September 1, 2013 Share #319 Posted September 1, 2013 BTW i felt so sure that flare is not a problem that i did not even think to remove my IR-cut filter for the snap above (M240, Elmar 50/2.8 v2, f/16). I would really love to have the same feeling with the Summicron 50/2 apo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted September 1, 2013 Share #320 Posted September 1, 2013 This is the best example I have regarding loss of central contrast. M240+APO50, f16, towards a very bright sky. There are some loss of central contrast, but no central "white-out". I have also scanned through the 2000+ images I have with APO50. Not a single image with the central hot-spot found. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2410603'>More sharing options...
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