Anybody switched from M to X-Vario? Experiences?

[barjohn]

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I realized that might inflame some, but saying your camera never mis-focuses implies that the rest of us are idiots or liars. I ran controlled tests with the camera tripod mounted and using spot and one point and the camera would miss focus on a random basis. More frequently with spot which is counter intuitive and more frequently in bright light with the aperture stopped down. Lloyd Chambers in his field testing states:

 

"Auto Focus Inconsistency...the Leica X Vario has a fundamental algorithmic flaw in its autofocus: it focuses with the lens stopped down to the shooting aperture. Compare that idea with opening the lens diaphragm to focus precisely, then shooting at the stopped-down aperture (as with all DSLR cameras).

 

This stopped-down autofocus algorithm not only affects focus accuracy, it actively degrades autofocus performance as the lighting dims, a problem I encountered repeatedly in the field."

 

A friend that purchased the XV returned it for this very reason and instead purchased the GX-7. His report to me is that while the GX-7 image quality does not match the XV's, but it never misses with its AF and it is light years faster so he gets more keepers than he did with the much more expensive XV.

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[euston]

. . . saying your camera never mis-focuses implies that the rest of us are idiots or liars.

 

I don’t think you’re a liar and you obviously know much more about electronics than I do. That doesn’t alter the fact that I have not encountered the AF mis-focusing that you report. There have been occasions when I could not find focus using AF, usually because of low light or insufficient contrast in the target, but I have not experienced the camera appearing to focus on one thing but actually focusing on another. That’s what I understand by mis-focusing.

 

I don’t know why our experience with the camera’s focusing should be so different unless it’s something to do with the quality of the light in Northern Europe compared with Southern California. Perhaps the algorithm which you believe is the problem was set up to suit Northern skies. I know little about electronics so I’m clutching at straws.

 

Did you ever get a reply from Leica on the focusing issue? Is it possible for you to reproduce it here?

[papimuzo]

[papimuzo]

I have no problem with AF (neither with X Vario neither with any AF models;)) probably because my first camera was this one... in about 1952.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Yes, YMMV, but personnaly the essential part of my cameras reside into the lenses; a sufficient raison I continue to buy Leica.

[barjohn]

...

Did you ever get a reply from Leica on the focusing issue? Is it possible for you to reproduce it here?

 

No, I sent them the list of suggested improvements and fixes and they ignored that email. They did answer the email in which I asked if there was an AA filter and the bit depth of files; however, the answer was not very scientific. On the AA filter their answer was just yes. I had inquired as to the strength in that Sean Reid had stated it was a 1.3 Nyquist filter. They claimed the bit depth was 14 bits but I sent them the EXIF data showing 12 bits and their response was they would look into it. I have heard nothing since.

 

Is this a bug in the camera that reports to the EXIF an incorrect value but it is actually 14 bits or is it actually 12 bits?

 

It is the lack of responsiveness that turns me off on the company. Weeks to get 2 simple questions answered and ignoring the real issues altogether.

 

By the way see post #20 in "XVARIO Still Make Sense?" for another validation of AF issues.

[Peter L]

No, I sent them the list of suggested improvements and fixes and they ignored that email. They did answer the email in which I asked if there was an AA filter and the bit depth of files; however, the answer was not very scientific. On the AA filter their answer was just yes. I had inquired as to the strength in that Sean Reid had stated it was a 1.3 Nyquist filter. They claimed the bit depth was 14 bits but I sent them the EXIF data showing 12 bits and their response was they would look into it. I have heard nothing since.

 

Is this a bug in the camera that reports to the EXIF an incorrect value but it is actually 14 bits or is it actually 12 bits?

 

It is the lack of responsiveness that turns me off on the company. Weeks to get 2 simple questions answered and ignoring the real issues altogether.

 

By the way see post #20 in "XVARIO Still Make Sense?" for another validation of AF issues.

 

Perhaps Leica doesn't feel that you are in the same league with Erwin Puts and Peter Karbe

 

See my post #36 in "X Vario Still Makes Sense ?"

[barjohn]

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Are you saying that being a paying customer of Leica's is not sufficient to warrant an answer to questions and only if you are Erwin Puts or Peter Karbe are you worthy of an answer? If that is the case and they are that elitist, I don't want to do business with them any more and neither should anyone else. Do you speak for Leica?

[larsv]

Why do you think you can speak for all of us?

 

You're rambling on and on about focusing with the X Vario. Your misfocusing may be blamed to the X Vario, but may vary well also be the result of the principles used in the camera. I cannot find any AF problem that is worse than I have found with other compact/system cameras. You are trying to air your negative gospel in more than one thread on this forum, leaving me to suspect that your intentions may be less than noble.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Are you saying that being a paying customer of Leica's is not sufficient to warrant an answer to questions and only if you are Erwin Puts or Peter Karbe are you worthy of an answer? If that is the case and they are that elitist, I don't want to do business with them any more and neither should anyone else. Do you speak for Leica?

 

 

We do not know exactly what you wrote ... you gave us an outline but did not convey the tone of how your message was put across ... and unless we know that we would not know what Leica's reaction might have been.

 

And just because you might not wish to 'do business with them anymore ... ' it does not follow that others should adopt the same 'attitude'

 

dunk

[azzo]

Snaps to Share, more likely!

[dkCambridgeshire]

Are you saying that being a paying customer of Leica's is not sufficient to warrant an answer to questions and only if you are Erwin Puts or Peter Karbe are you worthy of an answer? If that is the case and they are that elitist, I don't want to do business with them any more and neither should anyone else. Do you speak for Leica?

 

Another thought ... Leica are a relatively small company and have probably been inundated with complaints and suggestions about e.g. the M240's lack of accessories. Their man-hour resources for answering/acknowledging such questions and suggestions could be limited - especially if require answering by experts who have other priorities. And they would also have to spend too much time sorting the wheat from the chaff. So ... maybe they have a policy about such messages.

 

I also sent Leica a suggestion but it was for the X1. At the time it seemed a reasonable suggestion but I received no acknowledgment. But when asked a question about the XV received a reply fairly promptly.

 

Just because I received no acknowledgment ref. my suggestion I did not take it personally or contemplate never doing business with them again.

 

dunk

[vcs700s]

Are you saying that being a paying customer of Leica's is not sufficient to warrant an answer to questions and only if you are Erwin Puts or Peter Karbe are you worthy of an answer? If that is the case and they are that elitist, I don't want to do business with them any more and neither should anyone else. Do you speak for Leica?

 

Are you saying a company, that receives hundreds if not thousands of emails a day, doesn't send a response then I shouldn't do business with them? Really? Seriously??

 

Maybe, instead of responding to every email they receive, they are working on more important things like firmware updates and product development.

 

They do have some photographers that they know and use for beta testing. They trust them and therefore respond to their emails. Apparently you aren't one of them, although they did respond to at least one of your emails.

 

John, by your own admission you move from camera to camera quite often. Maybe it is time you sell the X Vario and move to another company so you can email them. No camera is perfect! Live with it!!

[barjohn]

I am always amazed at how some people on this site seem to always resort to personal attacks and then proceed to make excuses for a company with over 1,000 employees like they were some small mom & pop operation.

 

Either a company is responsive or it isn't. It is as simple as that. All the rest are excuses for why they aren't. Any well run company's marketing department would take the inquiries and create a FAQ that they could reference for commonly asked questions. It isn't very hard.

[larsv]

I'm amazed by your attitude. Some people let you know that they do not share your focusing experiences, even though they use the same model camera in similar situations. Either i) in a magical way they have a different set of hardware/software from you or ii) you have a) bad luck and got a bad copy or you don't understand how to correctly focus in some circumstances.

 

You ignore the people that don't have a problem and you have not returned the camera to your dealer or Leica as far as I know. You keep going about the poor performance and Leica's poor responses. Furthermore, you were telling us to stop doing business with Leica in case you reached the conclusion Leica is an elitist company.

 

What more need I say.

[tom0511]

I am always amazed at how some people on this site seem to always resort to personal attacks and then proceed to make excuses for a company with over 1,000 employees like they were some small mom & pop operation.

 

Either a company is responsive or it isn't. It is as simple as that. All the rest are excuses for why they aren't. Any well run company's marketing department would take the inquiries and create a FAQ that they could reference for commonly asked questions. It isn't very hard.

 

John,

maybe you could talk to other people at Leica or through an other way of communication (phone or even better personal).

I have had very good response from Leica over the years. But my experiece they are still a bit conservative in some things and I get much better response when I talk to them vs using e-mail.

[larsv]

Tom0511,

 

I think that is a very good and constructive suggestion.

 

Best regards,

Lars

[barjohn]

Snaps to Share, more likely!

 

I don't claim that they are artistic photos. My images were posted to show pictures taken under different conditions and to share moments captured of both portrait and landscapes, nothing more.

 

I'm not into the so called "artistic style" everyone seems to copy of gritty black and white images of poor people that are down on their luck or color images of graffiti filled walls. However, I'm sure some people think its great and that is fine with me.

 

So Azzo where is the link in your signature to your great works of art so I can see "real images" instead of snaps and be properly impressed? I have searched through 15 pages of your posts, frequently critiquing others photos but could not find a single photo you posted.

[barjohn]

Another thought ... Leica are a relatively small company and have probably been inundated with complaints and suggestions about e.g. the M240's lack of accessories. Their man-hour resources for answering/acknowledging such questions and suggestions could be limited - especially if require answering by experts who have other priorities. And they would also have to spend too much time sorting the wheat from the chaff. So ... maybe they have a policy about such messages.

 

I also sent Leica a suggestion but it was for the X1. At the time it seemed a reasonable suggestion but I received no acknowledgment. But when asked a question about the XV received a reply fairly promptly.

 

Just because I received no acknowledgment ref. my suggestion I did not take it personally or contemplate never doing business with them again.

 

dunk

 

Dunk,

 

If you read my post more carefully, you will see that I said "IF" their attitude is "elitist" I didn't say that it was. I don't know what their attitude is as I have never spoken with them. So please don't put words in my mouth I didn't say or impute meaning that was not in my words. If I didn't have an affinity for Leica, based on my early days with Leica and film and having fun in the darkroom and I didn't care about the company I wouldn't waste my time with them or buy their products. It is more a philosophical thing with me that when you sell a premium priced product you should offer premium service and value. For example, I have a co-worker who's son works for Luis Vuitton and started in their manufacturing and is now moving up into their management. Their purses are quite expensive as anyone that has ever purchased one knows. The quality is simply outstanding. He is able to purchase their rejects at a very reasonable price and has brought some for his mom and sister. Frankly, it is almost impossible to see the flaws that made them rejects unless you know their quality standards and what to look for. They wear like iron and last long past the point that most women are tired of them and want a new one. Thus in my mind their price is more justified. I know the quality is there and so is the longevity.

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[azzo]

...

 

So Azzo ...

 

 

 

Around here since 2006, and you haven't yet come across any?

 

Well, I guess they're not your type.

[stephen.w]

So Azzo where is the link in your signature to your great works of art so I can see "real images" instead of snaps and be properly impressed? I have searched through 15 pages of your posts, frequently critiquing others photos but could not find a single photo you posted.

To spare Ivan having to come to his own defence, have a look here: Ivan Azzopardi: Film forever in the classic Leica tradition IMO some of the very best work to be seen on LUF.