biglouis Posted June 19, 2013 Share #1  Posted June 19, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) All  I'm back - did you miss me?  I departed the forum about a year ago (almost exactly now I come to think of it) when I sold all my Leica kit in favour of pastures new, so to speak, photographically.  What has drawn me back is the buckets of vitriolic crap which has bunged up internet forums concerning that rascally new product by Leica called the mini-M... I mean Leica X Vario (or whatever).  Dip into any photographic forum you care to name and the Leica section resembles a battle ground - with accusation and counter-accusation flying back and forth and parental lineages of supporters and detractors being called into question quite publicly.  Wake up people: it is only a camera, not something important like world hunger or the price of film (which incidentally is going up even as I write).  Anyway, I was drawn to this forum to see if indeed the warfare has spilled over here. Glad to see it has largely not.  I am now a user of Hasselblad and Fuji film cameras (my Fuji GF670w is nothing short of magnificent and, hey, a rangefinder!) and digital cameras from Sigma and Sony. I am one of the few misguided souls who has actually bought a Sony RX-1 (albeit second hand, I hasten to add).  I have to say that starting from a position of thinking wtf? I have moved a lot closer to contemplating owning a XV. Indeed, if I had not bought the RX-1 I think I might already have pulled the trigger. It is very hard not to like the RX-1 once you get used to it. It really is a full sized DSLR in a pint sized package. I like small things so it suits me well - especially as I am now quite advanced in my sixth decade and find just pulling myself upright is a task, let alone doing it with some 2Kg behemoth around my neck. But I digress.  Why would I contemplate rejoining the Leica fraternity (apart from missing all my old chums)?  Firstly, it seems to me that if the lens on the XV is a good Leica lens - lets say for argument as good as an Elmarit, or even an Elmar - then actually the asking price is quite reasonable. After all, you are getting a 28, 35, 50 and 70 (I would have preferred 90 but what the hey) lens.  Secondly, thank goodness it is a 16MP sensor. The file size of RX-1 raw images at 24MP is nothing short of ridiculous. Converted to 16-bit tiffs they explode to 140MB! 16MP is a bit excessive but a third smaller than this ridiculous benchmark obsessing many digital camera manufacturers and users. So, well done to Leica for not becoming a victim of competition in marketing to eat disk storage, extend write times and most of all out resolve the glass that you sell (Nikon and Canon users).  When you actually do the financial maths, a good sensor and Leica glass which covers the most important focal lengths for RF users and you can positively convince yourself that it would a crime not to own an XV.  So, my take is that this could be quite a useful little camera and not the poke in the eye that many pundits have decided without ever even seeing an XV or understanding the quality of Leica glass.  I could gladly give one a home, were it not for the thorny problem of a financial transaction of this size further exacerbating marital strife. I told you I liked small things.  LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 19, 2013 Posted June 19, 2013 Hi biglouis, Take a look here Poke in the eye, anyone?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
larsv Posted June 19, 2013 Share #2 Â Posted June 19, 2013 Good to see you back! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 19, 2013 Share #3  Posted June 19, 2013 All I'm back - did you miss me?  I departed the forum about a year ago (almost exactly now I come to think of it) when I sold all my Leica kit in favour of pastures new, so to speak, photographically. .....  ....  I could gladly give one a home, were it not for the thorny problem of a financial transaction of this size further exacerbating marital strife. I told you I liked small things.  LouisB  Welcome back Louis. I am selling my medium format Mamiya 7 RF camera and lenses via my dealer to fund my X Vario. Yes the XV promises to be a versatile tool despite all the criticisms of those who should know better ie those who want the impossible wider zoom range constant f2.8 lens. I hope you find a way to acquire your X Vario and look forward to seeing your results.  Best wishes  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest badbob Posted June 20, 2013 Share #4 Â Posted June 20, 2013 AllWhat has drawn me back is the buckets of vitriolic crap which has bunged up internet forums concerning that rascally new product by Leica called the mini-M... I mean Leica X Vario (or whatever). Dip into any photographic forum you care to name and the Leica section resembles a battle ground - with accusation and counter-accusation flying back and forth and parental lineages of supporters and detractors being called into question quite publicly. LouisB Â I don't think the level of vitriol and anger is what people are led to believe by all the disclaimers. If you check the sources carefully, you'll find men who enjoy all sorts of expensive cars, food, homes, sports regalia etc. But when these people associate a product with something they personally disrespect, be it fashion or whatever, be it Leica or Louis Vuitton, they become very angry at what they claim is the pricing. That's not the source of their anger, trust me - the source of their anger is where they associate those products with people and things they abhor. They have to disassociate Leica with "real" photography first and foremost, in order to eliminate that association from their equation. Check it out - I've studied this phenomenon already with Louis Vuitton products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted June 20, 2013 Share #5 Â Posted June 20, 2013 Welcome back Louis - you have indeed been missed! Â From my initial questioning of Leica's motives in producing this camera with its slow-ish lens and having now seen Jono's DNG files (which I'll print out shortly), I am impressed by the resulting quality. It does seem to be a versatile camera. Mark you, I should have expected that from Leica anyway. So I"ll almost certainly get one which will further delay the Monochrom purchase, alas. I just hope that Leica can supply these at a reasonable flow rate! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted June 20, 2013 Share #6 Â Posted June 20, 2013 Big - Â I really miss you and hope you grace at least the commentary here from time to time. I rather like the XV, and immediately thought that with the addition of an EVF in the hotshoe it's virtually the long dreamed of D2 update. Â Will I buy one? Not likely since I have other cameras (including the D2) and cannot justify the cost. Â Let's hear from you more often. A lot more often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 20, 2013 Share #7 Â Posted June 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Louis, Â I hadn't realised that you had sold off your Leica gear but welcome back. Â I usually only take part in this forum - even though I use other types of camras than Leica - so I haven't seen the comments elsewhere that you refer to, but if you think this site is tame compared to others I must see just what crap they're spouting! Â I wasn't at all surprised that the 'mini M' turned out to be an X2 with a zoom - in fact it's what I predicted at the outset, I'm just surprised that so many others were surprised that's what it is! Â It's not a camera for me, although I would use it if I were given one. As you say, taken in context of Leica lens prices it could be seen as good value, if the lens really is that good. Â I don't understand the apparent attitude of most of the critics, generally existing M users, who feel personally insulted that Leica have brought out a new camera that isn't for them. Don't they understand that Leica are trying to widen their market? Â Anyway glad to hear you're enjoying your photography, and don't be a stranger! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 21, 2013 Share #8 Â Posted June 21, 2013 HI Louis Nice to see you back - I hadn't realised you'd gone either, but then, having just reached my sixth decade myself (or, scarily, is it seventh?) I now have the concentration span of a goldfish! Â Nice measured remarks. Keep posting. Â all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feudal1 Posted June 21, 2013 Share #9 Â Posted June 21, 2013 Good comments in here. And you're right about the more measured, reasoned conversation that occurs here, compared to the angry arguments in other forums. It's like people fighting for the honor of their favorite sports team, instead of it being what it should be - discussion about the merits of a new camera. Â I bought the X Vario the first day it was available, and absolutely love mine. The image quality and color rendition is top notch, and it's a joy to use. I did end up picking up an EVF, as shooting via the LCD screen has it's definite downsides. Â I can't justify the outlay of cash for an M and lenses. The X Vario is much friendlier to my wallet, and still has the outstanding Leica image quality, combined with simple control, that we all enjoy. Â Many of those other arguments center around the Fuji XE-1 and X-PRO1 cameras being better, cheaper options. The sentiment seems to be anyone buying an X Vario over one of those is a fool with more money than sense. I was actually accused of that myself. But when I posted images taken with the X Vario, the negativity stopped when people realized that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts when discussing Leica and the X Vario. And I've tried the XE-1 myself - nice images, but I just didn't find myself loving the camera like I do the X Vario. It's a shame that some people don't get the concept that not everyone has to like the same things. If you like the Fuji XE-1 camera more than the X Vario, that's great. Just don't tell me that I'm stupid for picking the X Vario over the XE-1 or X-PRO1 (especially if you have never even held an X Vario, much less shot with one). It's all about personal preference and taste. It's about individuality, and choices! Â Finally... this probably sounds silly, but the X Vario is also a great looking camera, and I like that. It's currently sitting on the desk in my office, with EVF attached, and I love how it looks. There is something about it that the Fuji cameras just don't have (again, for me personally). So that adds to the appeal for me, and the attachment that I'm developing for this camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted June 21, 2013 Share #10 Â Posted June 21, 2013 You only sold the gear to get out of shooting Limehouse with me! Glad you are well Louis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglouis Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share #11  Posted June 22, 2013 Thanks all, almost teared up to read the kind remarks from so many of you. I wish Leica could buy out Sigma or Fuji - the I could start posting pictures here again!  I think it will be some time before I can afford a XV. I do like the concept and I think it would suit me down to the ground but I am very committed to MF film kit at present.  Ho hum, life is full of choices!  Best to you all  LouisB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 22, 2013 Share #12  Posted June 22, 2013 Thanks all, almost teared up to read the kind remarks from so many of you. I wish Leica could buy out Sigma or Fuji - the I could start posting pictures here again! I think it will be some time before I can afford a XV. I do like the concept and I think it would suit me down to the ground but I am very committed to MF film kit at present.  Ho hum, life is full of choices!  Best to you all  LouisB  Maybe try and win a Leica X Vario - one will probably be offered as a prize eventually.  I SHOT IT : The Best Photo Competition  dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsimmonds Posted June 23, 2013 Share #13  Posted June 23, 2013 Hi Louis  I won't say welcome back as in my thoughts you have never been away! It is probably because I keep bumping into you on another forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turner Posted June 23, 2013 Share #14  Posted June 23, 2013 Louis,  To quote Stuart  "Let's hear from you more often. A lot more often."  Regards,  Fred Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George James Posted June 24, 2013 Share #15  Posted June 24, 2013 Louis, To quote Stuart  "Let's hear from you more often. A lot more often."  Regards,  Fred  You really have been missed !!  George Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 24, 2013 Share #16 Â Posted June 24, 2013 Happy to see you again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smb Posted June 24, 2013 Share #17 Â Posted June 24, 2013 Welcome back. Remember everyone is subject to saying dumb things. Ignore it and move on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim sink Posted July 15, 2013 Share #18 Â Posted July 15, 2013 The X Vario....don't leave home without it !!!!! Its that good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted July 16, 2013 Share #19  Posted July 16, 2013 All Dip into any photographic forum you care to name and the Leica section resembles a battle ground - with accusation and counter-accusation flying back and forth and parental lineages of supporters and detractors being called into question quite publicly.  one of the few misguided souls who has actually bought a Sony RX-1 (albeit second hand, I hasten to add).  Firstly, it seems to me that if the lens on the XV is a good Leica lens - lets say for argument as good as an Elmarit, or even an Elmar - then actually the asking price is quite reasonable. After all, you are getting a 28, 35, 50 and 70 (I would have preferred 90 but what the hey) lens.   Actually its not that bad. There are a few bad eggs here and elsewhere, but mostly people are quite good. dpreview is surprisingly benign!  I don't want to upset you, but the RX1 is positively mainstream now And yes, its excellent.  The glass on the x-vario is the main selling point. Largely if you are using it for general photography and can work with the light restrictions it produces some lovely images. The colours are also exceptional not just for Leica but in terms of the market as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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