dlynn Posted June 21, 2013 Share #241 Posted June 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have to agree with Stephen on this one. The M240 rollout is a complete mess compared with M9's, and it's likely due to a shortage of key components rather than an underestimation of potential customer enthusiasm. Leica is a great company and that's why people are offering their criticism to make it better. I for one would not want to wait till 2014 to get a hold of a 2012 camera, especially when the next generation would come around in another 12 months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 21, 2013 Posted June 21, 2013 Hi dlynn, Take a look here Production Issues with M240?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted June 22, 2013 Share #242 Posted June 22, 2013 OK, over 240 posts on the M240, this thread is closed due to production problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share #243 Posted June 22, 2013 OK, over 240 posts on the M240, this thread is closed due to production problems. Too funny Lou, but we are all just trying to read the tea leaves. Somebody out there knows the reason or reasons for the delays and limited shipments, so perhaps we will eventually learn the truth. Several here have speculated that people should not question Leica, or be concerned if there are component supply or quality issues, but I do not subscribe to this. Often production issues can resurface at a later date (LCD coffee stain? Sensor cover glass cracking?) and if there are problems I would like to know about them now. It's as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 22, 2013 Share #244 Posted June 22, 2013 I think we can dismiss the official Leica explanation of unanticipated demand and high level of manual work. Somewhere, I expect there is a supply chain SNAFU, a yield problem with the components themselves, a problem with the surface mount process or something similar. Imagine ordering 1000 boards from a sub-contractor only to find a fraction of them work. Worse, surface mount electronics either works or it doesn't, opportunity for rework is limited and if a board doesn't work, all the components on it are wasted and lead times for electronic components - which are made in batches like Leica lenses - are surprisingly long. New sensor, new shutter, new display, new electronics, new everything. It was always going to be high risk. After the M8 display debacle and M9 sensor cracking, the last thing Leica needs is any sense of them not being on top of their supply chain or sub-contractors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 22, 2013 Share #245 Posted June 22, 2013 Whatever it is, let's hope Leica gets on top of the issue(s) very soon. That should be easily recognizable by substantially increased sustained shipments. Good luck to them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted June 22, 2013 Share #246 Posted June 22, 2013 I ordered my M9 in Dec 2009 and received it in Dec 2009 (via BH). I guess my experience was the exception. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptZoom Posted June 22, 2013 Share #247 Posted June 22, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Have to agree with Stephen on this one. The M240 rollout is a complete mess compared with M9's, and it's likely due to a shortage of key components rather than an underestimation of potential customer enthusiasm. Leica is a great company and that's why people are offering their criticism to make it better. I for one would not want to wait till 2014 to get a hold of a 2012 camera, especially when the next generation would come around in another 12 months. Just because the next gen camera would be 12 months away, doesn't mean it'll hit the street in 12 months. The three year cycle would remain in tact:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted June 22, 2013 Share #248 Posted June 22, 2013 I haven't read through this entire thread and don't know if this has already been covered, but my dealer advised me that the production delay with the M240 has been primarily due to a highish reject rate with the new sensor where some 1 in 6 are being rejected. I imagine the sensors pass QC testing at CMOSIS prior to shipping which suggests something may be going awry while they are in transit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 22, 2013 Share #249 Posted June 22, 2013 You mean it the fault of a fork lift operator! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted June 22, 2013 Share #250 Posted June 22, 2013 I haven't read through this entire thread and don't know if this has already been covered, but my dealer advised me that the production delay with the M240 has been primarily due to a highish reject rate with the new sensor where some 1 in 6 are being rejected. That would be my guess as well : after mapping out the sensor for banding, cross-talk and other non-uniformities, yield is low. Lots of fast 14 bit column A->Ds running in parallel on that chip along with associated support logic bouncing around. Guess they will get there in the end - after a few more fab cycles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 22, 2013 Share #251 Posted June 22, 2013 I haven't read through this entire thread and don't know if this has already been covered, but my dealer advised me that the production delay with the M240 has been primarily due to a highish reject rate with the new sensor where some 1 in 6 are being rejected. I imagine the sensors pass QC testing at CMOSIS prior to shipping which suggests something may be going awry while they are in transit. Well, if true (has your dealer told you something about his source of info?) a 1 in 6 rejection is sufficient for causing a serious problem of global rescheduling of the whoòe production cycle, given the number of outsourced parts (and, at the end, wouldn't be much different within a theorical "all into factory" workflow) : taking for good the usual 50 bodies/day target output, and supposed a 1 week sourcing rate (typical for auto industry... for such products as cameras could be 2) , a Company cannot afford to end a workweek with around 55-60 casted/machined body shells + complete VF/RF assemblies + complete shutter assemblies... all on the shelves, just to quote 3 of the most costly subparts... it becomes a serious problem to manage... Some kind of issue/defect in a new microelectronic component is old story... do you remember tha famed "Pentium Bug" ? And in 1984, when I worked for (then named) Honeywell, which on a certain Computer adopted a new CPU made in the Italian Lab, a strange, random contamination in the Silicon Wafer caused 10-15% of the CPUs to lose randomly the bits in the on-chip cache memory... it needed 3 full months to get rid of the issue... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 22, 2013 Share #252 Posted June 22, 2013 OK, over 240 posts on the M240, this thread is closed due to production problems. Prescribed wording regarding posting bottlenecks in this thread The enormous demand has by far exceeded our expectations, with the consequence that delays in this thread can unfortunately not be avoided. Each post is a handcrafted product in every detail and may only leave the factory after being tested, checked and adjusted for so long until its flawless finish and performance are guaranteed and fulfil the exhaustive quality demands on which the worldwide reputation of this forum is founded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 22, 2013 Share #253 Posted June 22, 2013 Prescribed wording regarding posting bottlenecks in this thread The enormous demand has by far exceeded our expectations, with the consequence that delays in this thread can unfortunately not be avoided. Each post is a handcrafted product in every detail and may only leave the factory after being tested, checked and adjusted for so long until its flawless finish and performance are guaranteed and fulfil the exhaustive quality demands on which the worldwide reputation of this forum is founded. :cool: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 22, 2013 Share #254 Posted June 22, 2013 :cool: : Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 22, 2013 Share #255 Posted June 22, 2013 It could be production issues coupled with scheduling. Portugal plant was shutdown (and it still might be shutdown) for inventory etc. for a few months as part of its regular schedule. If assembly schedule had slipped somewhere in the pipeline and that plant was in the critical path then needed parts would be held up until the plant came online again. Add to this the standard European workweek of <35 hours a week, holidays and month long summer vacations it is a wonder anything gets built in a timely manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted June 22, 2013 Share #256 Posted June 22, 2013 The summer shutdown will not have happened yet... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbuckley Posted June 22, 2013 Share #257 Posted June 22, 2013 I'm certainly not expert on German union rules, but... Until and unless they can get more cameras out the door, not to mention the damned R adaptor and hand grip, there shouldn't be a summer break, should there? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 22, 2013 Share #258 Posted June 22, 2013 Summer shutdowns are to get everyone out of the way so that major asset maintenance can take place uninterrupted. It has nothing to do with towels on sunbeds... Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 22, 2013 Share #259 Posted June 22, 2013 Ford and Chrysler are reducing the 2013 summer maintenance shutdowns from 2 weeks to 1 in order to boost production to meet demand. Mercedes and BMW have followed suit and will go a step further, eliminating this year's shutdown. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 22, 2013 Share #260 Posted June 22, 2013 ... Until and unless they can get more cameras out the door, not to mention the damned R adaptor and hand grip, there shouldn't be a summer break, should there? Yes they should stop eating and sleeping as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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