dwbell Posted June 20, 2013 Share #221 Posted June 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is true that M240 orders are slow being filled, even for a camera that hasn't inspired as much enthusiasm as the M9 did. I ordered my M9 late in September 2009 so was well down my dealers list, but I got it five weeks later. I think if I ordered an M240 now I would get it just before the M-P (or M-2, M-X, M-'mine is better than yours', M-'what I wanted in the first place', etc.) is announced. So the incentive reduces day by day, the enthusiasm wains, I find I didn't want it after all, I'm glad I didn't sell my M9, I get out my M2 and order some 35mm film and forget about it. Which is what Leica are facing now, the same scenario is being played out in the heads of many people with their name on a list. Steve Yup. I'm thinking maybe MP, or 1DX. Yeh, opposite ends I know, both great tools though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2013 Posted June 20, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here Production Issues with M240?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
MirekE Posted June 20, 2013 Share #222 Posted June 20, 2013 I noticed that most Leica lenses are readily available in stores. I waited a year for my 90 cron and 16 months for my chrome 50 lux. At that time, various articles and opinions suggested that it is not possible for Leica to increase the production due to delicate nature of manual production. Now I can get almost any lens within 24 hours. Does anybody know how they managed to do that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 20, 2013 Share #223 Posted June 20, 2013 I noticed that most Leica lenses are readily available in stores. I waited a year for my 90 cron and 16 months for my chrome 50 lux. At that time, various articles and opinions suggested that it is not possible for Leica to increase the production due to delicate nature of manual production. Now I can get almost any lens within 24 hours. Does anybody know how they managed to do that? They kept everyone waiting for the camera bodies, so existing customers reserve their cash and potential customers have no immediate need. The past 12 months has not been a bumper year for M body production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 20, 2013 Share #224 Posted June 20, 2013 Yup. I'm thinking maybe MP, or 1DX. Yeh, opposite ends I know, both great tools though. Easy answer. Supply caught up with demand. The ones that can afford one for either Leica bodies or plastic fantastic one has bought them. The ones that can't afford the new ones seek previously owned ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevens Posted June 20, 2013 Share #225 Posted June 20, 2013 They kept everyone waiting for the camera bodies, so existing customers reserve their cash and potential customers have no immediate need. The past 12 months has not been a bumper year for M body production. Can we assume then that once most or all of the M240 orders are filled, we may see another lens shortage? I'm assuming that's what happened when the M9 came out.. vicious cycle.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted June 20, 2013 Share #226 Posted June 20, 2013 I noticed that most Leica lenses are readily available in stores. I waited a year for my 90 cron and 16 months for my chrome 50 lux. At that time, various articles and opinions suggested that it is not possible for Leica to increase the production due to delicate nature of manual production. Now I can get almost any lens within 24 hours. Does anybody know how they managed to do that? I think they even overproduced the lenses, so that they're having trouble selling them. The second hand market is extremely slow at the moment, and Leica is forcing M buyers to get a summilux or a noctilux with the camera in southeast Asia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2013 Share #227 Posted June 20, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can we assume then that once most or all of the M240 orders are filled, we may see another lens shortage? I'm assuming that's what happened with the M9 came out.. vicious cycle.. I don't think so, as the factory in Wetzlar will be functioning by that time, increasing production capacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 20, 2013 Share #228 Posted June 20, 2013 I noticed that most Leica lenses are readily available in stores. I waited a year for my 90 cron and 16 months for my chrome 50 lux. At that time, various articles and opinions suggested that it is not possible for Leica to increase the production due to delicate nature of manual production. Now I can get almost any lens within 24 hours. Does anybody know how they managed to do that? Question: What can you tell us about production capacities? Alfred Schopf: Two years ago Leica has made 800 lenses each month, now we make 3200. However, customers overwhelmed us such that the demand still exceeds our capacity. By the end of this year there should be 4000 lenses made and the target for 2014 is 5000 lenses. After the relocation to the new facilites in late 2013 or early 2014 the capacity ought to grow even more. Seeing the resonance here in photokina I fear that our products will remain a bit scarce. We do our utmost to increase capacity, but we will not risk compromising the quality of our products. We much prefer complaints about delivery times over complaints about defects in quality. Source: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2012/10/leica-photokina-qa-session-schopf-daniel/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted June 20, 2013 Share #229 Posted June 20, 2013 I noticed that most Leica lenses are readily available in stores. I waited a year for my 90 cron and 16 months for my chrome 50 lux. At that time, various articles and opinions suggested that it is not possible for Leica to increase the production due to delicate nature of manual production. Now I can get almost any lens within 24 hours. Does anybody know how they managed to do that? As well as increased production, I think it is also the fact that because the M is so late now no new blood is coming into the Leica fold. The existing user base has all the lenses they want/need they can justify for the most part. The M also is a double edged sword. Because of live view, and various adaptors one can use almost any manufacturers lenses - Contax, Leica R etc., etc.. That could also reduce demand on the M lenses. Of course reverse is also true in regards to use of M lenses on other manufacturers cameras. Which trend will be more prolific only time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 20, 2013 Share #230 Posted June 20, 2013 ....just before the M-P (or M-2, M-X, M-'mine is better than yours', M-'what I wanted in the first place', etc.) is announced. If I understand the new supposed "system," we'll never see an M-P or M-2, etc; rather we'll just see another M, and it will be typ260 or 300 or whatever "typ." On the other hand, maybe whatever comes after the mini M, which is really an X. The only certainty is that it won't be available until well after the announcement anyway. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJB Posted June 20, 2013 Share #231 Posted June 20, 2013 It is true that M240 orders are slow being filled, even for a camera that hasn't inspired as much enthusiasm as the M9 did. I ordered my M9 late in September 2009 so was well down my dealers list, but I got it five weeks later. I think if I ordered an M240 now I would get it just before the M-P (or M-2, M-X, M-'mine is better than yours', M-'what I wanted in the first place', etc.) is announced. So the incentive reduces day by day, the enthusiasm wains, I find I didn't want it after all, I'm glad I didn't sell my M9, I get out my M2 and order some 35mm film and forget about it. Which is what Leica are facing now, the same scenario is being played out in the heads of many people with their name on a list. Steve I agree with this. Having been on the list for a good while, I have got to the point of indifference. This is weak PR for Leica. Creating demand is good. Creating indifference and disillusionment is dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 20, 2013 Share #232 Posted June 20, 2013 Easy answer. Supply caught up with demand. The ones that can afford one for either Leica bodies or plastic fantastic one has bought them. The ones that can't afford the new ones seek previously owned ones. Hi jd. Not sure I understand? I didn't ask a question? I was saying that getting more and more jaded with slow (non existing) delivery of the M240 my mind moves off to other projects and other tools. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 20, 2013 Share #233 Posted June 20, 2013 If I understand the new supposed "system," we'll never see an M-P or M-2, etc; rather we'll just see another M, and it will be typ260 or 300 or whatever "typ." We might see an M-P or a new M-E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 20, 2013 Share #234 Posted June 20, 2013 If I understand the new supposed "system," we'll never see an M-P or M-2, etc; rather we'll just see another M, and it will be typ260 or 300 or whatever "typ." Jeff, the 'M-P' (whatever variant you want to guess at) is the same camera as the M240, it is just the tarted up M240. It is the camera that Leica should have made in the first place, but to ensure an 'upgrade market' they do a cheap makeover on an existing product, offering something that people wanted all along. Hence the recent history of M8 to M8.2, M9 to M9-P. At the point of introducing each new camera model they make a tactical design decision to give the camera an ugly trait, like the bigger red dot, then they make it 'better' with a makeover. For instance I wouldn't be surprised to see an MM 'black paint' before long, or a chrome version. So given past performance why should the M240 be different? The people who got one in the first batch will have had plenty of use out of it before the 'upgrade' is announced, and they can consider their options. But by the time the end of the queue has been dealt with they will be getting a few months use before they feel cheated. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted June 20, 2013 Share #235 Posted June 20, 2013 We might see an M-P or a new M-E. Oooh an update to the M9/M-E would be perfect! I'd like the ergonomics of the M240 with the CCD sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted June 20, 2013 Share #236 Posted June 20, 2013 Jeff, the 'M-P' (whatever variant you want to guess at) is the same camera as the M240, it is just the tarted up M240. Yep, I knew exactly what you meant, Steve. As an M8.2 owner, especially. I fully expect a "dressed" up M. I just thought that Leica changed the name game going forward, but I guess not based on Michael's response as well. I thought all future M's, even just tarted up ones, would just get another number designation. Frankly, I couldn't care less, as I think Leica has sufficiently screwed up the whole naming situation with the M in the first place (M10 would have been just fine), and then the mini/nano ad nonsense. I tend to be a "second generation" looker (or adopter, if worthy) anyway, so I welcome a new M with some minor tweaks, since by then it will likely be a better sorted camera (post-teething issues), just like the M8.2 was following the M8, besides being somewhat better looking IMO ( M8.2's new covering, black dot on black camera, etc). Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 20, 2013 Share #237 Posted June 20, 2013 Oooh an update to the M9/M-E would be perfect! I'd like the ergonomics of the M240 with the CCD sensor. But then I doubt we will see an M-E (or any M) with a CCD ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 20, 2013 Share #238 Posted June 20, 2013 They kept everyone waiting for the camera bodies, so existing customers reserve their cash and potential customers have no immediate need. The past 12 months has not been a bumper year for M body production. Correct, considering a 38% drop in revenues,now we know why. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 20, 2013 Share #239 Posted June 20, 2013 Source: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-news/2012/10/leica-photokina-qa-session-schopf-daniel/ Well dare say on the QC front with the lug fiasco they failed as well as on the production front too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted June 20, 2013 Share #240 Posted June 20, 2013 But then I doubt we will see an M-E (or any M) with a CCD ever again. I share your doubt. It might have been easier for Leica to produce in sufficient numbers given their experience with CCD sensor rangefinders. But obviously Leica has commited to CMOS now. Ah well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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