Ebay Noctilux scam {MERGED}

[stunsworth]

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Well, I think I said earlier that he had 21 positives when I made the purchase. How he got that history when it was changed afterward, I wish I knew. If he'd had 0, I clearly wouldn't have done it.

 

So has it arrived?

[farnz]

I ain't gonna lie, I would never in a million years buy something from eBay for $7000. That's a lot of goddamn money. ...

Yes it's a lot of money I agree but people successfully buy cars and even houses through ebay for a lot more every day. If I was buying something of that expense through ebay then I'd insist on using a reputable escrow agent because the fees would be worth the security.

 

Pete.

[Ecar]

It's hard to resist a seemingly good deal.

The OP was candid and open enough to share the information about his misfortune in this forum.

He should be thanked for that - turning the knife in the wound is no use.

FWIW, in the good old early days of eBay, I did buy expensive stuff there (as high as 4-5,000 $ - including a 50/1 Noctilux IIRC, they were cheaper then...). Always bought from sellers with a good reputation (granted, they had more than 21 positive feedbacks...) and never had a problem.

It's only recently that, in my search from more "exotic" gear at reasonable prices, I have stumbled on a couple of unscrupulous sellers - overall, however, issues have been resolved to my satisfaction.

[zombii]

I ain't gonna lie, I would never in a million years buy something from eBay for $7000. That's a lot of goddamn money. There are enough reputable sources to purchase from. And as the old saying goes, "if it sounds to good to be true..."

 

I'm guessing that you didn't receive the lens?

 

So a couple of years ago, an f/1 Noctilux would go from $5500 to $7000 on Ebay but at a "reputable" dealer, they'd go for $8000 - $9000. Are you saying you'd rather pony up $1000 - $3500 just to get it from somebody that isn't on Ebay? I've sold lenses for over $6000 on Ebay. Not everybody is a thief. I should have taken more time looking at this and that was my bad but don't go throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

No, I have not received the package and it's past due so a case has been opened. I should have a resolution by the end of next week. I'll let you know when I have that. I know where the package is and it's status. Apparently, he either put the wrong address or an invalid address on it. It's being held in Miami by Chronopost France pending him giving them a correct address. I don't expect that to happen. My guess is he deliberately messed up the address. At this point, I hope he doesn't do anything because it should be an easier resolution with Ebay this way.

[zombii]

For the benefit of everyone who thinks I'm an idiot as well as those of you who have been nice, let me explain my thought process when I bought this. BTW, I almost didn't post about this since I knew I was going to get beat up over it.

 

To begin with, I'm no newbie on Ebay. I've got over 400 positive feedbacks, about 1/4 as a seller. In my time on Ebay, I have come across deals that were legitimate where the price was unusually low and the feedback also low. Not everyone knows how to price an item, particularly newbies. Also, I've only had one other scam pulled on me and that was for a $30 something dollar filter where I got an empty box in the mail. The seller tried to accuse me of scamming him. Ebay thought differently as I had (and have) 100% positive feedback. They immediately refunded my payment.

 

Now in the last year or so, I've seen lens scams where the asking price was 1/4 to 1/3 of market value and where you were told that you had to email or call to get that price. Clearly hijacked accounts and I've reported a number of them.

 

In this case, the price was low but used f/0.95 Nocts are now regularly going for $9500 and sometimes less and those are all in EXC++ to MINT condition. The pix of this lens showed significant cosmetic wear and the price, while low, was about 3/4 of the value that others had been going for. On top of that, there was nothing about calling or emailing to get the price. The reason for sale sounded legit. The feedback was low but, as I said above, sometimes that's where the deals are. The final nail was that I got in a hurry. Had I waited a day, I probably wouldn't have done it but I've waited a day on other deals and the item was gone.

 

Even after I bought it, the seller responded to messages and shipped it (or something) the next day. It wasn't until the same images and text were used in another ad about a week later that I knew it was a scam for sure.

 

So, since there was still another ad that was clearly the same MO, I thought if I can get scammed even though being a pretty experienced Ebay'er there may well be people on these forums who have less experience who could get scammed. As we all know, hindsight is 20/20. Obviously, I'll be much more cautious after this. I feel fairly confident I'll get my money back. Many people that I've read about on this and other forums got scammed by sellers on forums where they had no guarantee at all. I feel for them. For anybody, who can't understand how this can happen, I hope you're really so smart that it doesn't happen to you. Just remember that there are always people looking for new angles to screw people out of their money. One of them just might hook you.

[TomB_tx]

Understandable - thanks for posting.

[A miller]

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For the benefit of everyone who thinks I'm an idiot as well as those of you who have been nice, let me explain my thought process when I bought this. BTW, I almost didn't post about this since I knew I was going to get beat up over it.

 

To begin with, I'm no newbie on Ebay. I've got over 400 positive feedbacks, about 1/4 as a seller. In my time on Ebay, I have come across deals that were legitimate where the price was unusually low and the feedback also low. Not everyone knows how to price an item, particularly newbies. Also, I've only had one other scam pulled on me and that was for a $30 something dollar filter where I got an empty box in the mail. The seller tried to accuse me of scamming him. Ebay thought differently as I had (and have) 100% positive feedback. They immediately refunded my payment.

 

Now in the last year or so, I've seen lens scams where the asking price was 1/4 to 1/3 of market value and where you were told that you had to email or call to get that price. Clearly hijacked accounts and I've reported a number of them.

 

In this case, the price was low but used f/0.95 Nocts are now regularly going for $9500 and sometimes less and those are all in EXC++ to MINT condition. The pix of this lens showed significant cosmetic wear and the price, while low, was about 3/4 of the value that others had been going for. On top of that, there was nothing about calling or emailing to get the price. The reason for sale sounded legit. The feedback was low but, as I said above, sometimes that's where the deals are. The final nail was that I got in a hurry. Had I waited a day, I probably wouldn't have done it but I've waited a day on other deals and the item was gone.

 

Even after I bought it, the seller responded to messages and shipped it (or something) the next day. It wasn't until the same images and text were used in another ad about a week later that I knew it was a scam for sure.

 

So, since there was still another ad that was clearly the same MO, I thought if I can get scammed even though being a pretty experienced Ebay'er there may well be people on these forums who have less experience who could get scammed. As we all know, hindsight is 20/20. Obviously, I'll be much more cautious after this. I feel fairly confident I'll get my money back. Many people that I've read about on this and other forums got scammed by sellers on forums where they had no guarantee at all. I feel for them. For anybody, who can't understand how this can happen, I hope you're really so smart that it doesn't happen to you. Just remember that there are always people looking for new angles to screw people out of their money. One of them just might hook you.

 

I admite your courage to reveal this. As long as you did your entire transaction on ebay, I'm certain that Ebay will back you and foot the bill for this if the buyer is MIA.

 

I'll also add that all of us are vulnerable to getting scammed. The problem is that it often happens when we least expect it when we have our guard down.

[Karl G]

For the benefit of everyone

 

I clearly think that's why you started the thread and the people reading will be likely to avoid the fake used noctilux eBay noctilux scam should a similar mo show up in the future. Hopefully, and I'm almost sure, you will only be out the disappointment and a few weeks of lost funds until the money is credited to your account.

[macjonny1]

Zombii totally understandable and I agree sometimes with risk is where the deals are. I got a minty v2 f/1 noct off amazon marketplace for well under market value for someone with no feedback and selling for his dad. I sold later for hundreds more than I bought it for and was confident Amazons buyer protection would be there as I would Ebays buyer protection.

[IkarusJohn]

I've been dreading opening this thread to see what has happened. I feel very sorry for you, Zombii. I can only imagine that cold realisation that you'd been had.

 

I trust eBay will come to the party - it's in their interests to do so.

 

Good luck.

John

[CalArts 99]

I trust eBay will come to the party - it's in their interests to do so.

 

I'm sure that they will. I don't think Zombii has anything to be concerned about aside from his time and frustration of having to deal with it all. It's clear that it was indeed a fraudulent listing. I don't think eBay could argue otherwise: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2420085-post32.html

[zombii]

Well, the required time has now expired with no change of status so I've escalated the case. I'm supposed to get a resolution within 48 hours. I will certainly be glad when I see that money back in my account and this over with.

[Photoskeptic]

I've had problems with eBay many times and no longer use them or PayPal. With eBay someone hacked my account and charged about 500 spurious listings to it. Then after an account name change someone hacked my PayPal account and charged about $350 in x-box purchases to it. While I realize thousands of buys and sales occur daily on eBay using PayPal without problems, my experience didn't reflect this so today I act as if these internet bodies do not exist.

Meanwhile, do let us know how everything is resolved in your case.

[aesop]

For the benefit of everyone who thinks I'm an idiot as well as those of you who have been nice, let me explain my thought process when I bought this. BTW, I almost didn't post about this since I knew I was going to get beat up over it.

 

<snip>

 

For anybody, who can't understand how this can happen, I hope you're really so smart that it doesn't happen to you. Just remember that there are always people looking for new angles to screw people out of their money. One of them just might hook you.

 

 

...big enough to stand up in public and admit a possible error. Intelligent enough to appreciate that there is much to be gained by sharing the specifics of your situation with others. I salute you and your efforts, zombii.

[earleygallery]

I've had problems with eBay many times and no longer use them or PayPal. With eBay someone hacked my account and charged about 500 spurious listings to it. Then after an account name change someone hacked my PayPal account and charged about $350 in x-box purchases to it. While I realize thousands of buys and sales occur daily on eBay using PayPal without problems, my experience didn't reflect this so today I act as if these internet bodies do not exist.

Meanwhile, do let us know how everything is resolved in your case.

 

In recent years I've had my bank account and credit cards hacked too. I still have a bank account and credit card however.

 

The only way you will avoid the risk of hacking is to only ever deal in cash (unless someone manages to pass off counterfeit money to you!).

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I was thinking of buying a camera strap from eBay but I think I will give it a miss

[macjonny1]

I was thinking of buying a camera strap from eBay but I think I will give it a miss

 

I agree eBay is totally unsafe and no one should do business there. That is exactly what everyone is saying here for sure I can see why you have reached that conclusion.

[Ivar B]

I think you are pushing this a bit too far now.

 

I have been using eBay for 10 years and several hundred transactions. I have had two negative experiences, one from a hacked account and one from a probably legitimate seller who did not deliver. In the last case, I opened a case asking for tracking information. When the seller did not respond in the time limit allowed, eBay promptly refunded the purchase price to me. I am thus 99 % happy With eBay.

 

Over the years though there have been several fraud attempts, and one needs to show some caution although lately eBay have greatly improved buyer safety.

 

I have now close to 900 positive feedbacks and 0 negative many of which involve expensive Leica gear.

 

However, if someone is willing to sell a New Nocti for 7000 (a lens which can easily be sold for perhaps 2 - 3 000 more), this is a strong warning signal to stay away. People do not normally give away large sums of money for free.

[Guest]

I think you are pushing this a bit too far now.

 

I have been using eBay for 10 years and several hundred transactions. I have had two negative experiences, one from a hacked account and one from a probably legitimate seller who did not deliver. In the last case, I opened a case asking for tracking information. When the seller did not respond in the time limit allowed, eBay promptly refunded the purchase price to me. I am thus 99 % happy With eBay.

 

Over the years though there have been several fraud attempts, and one needs to show some caution although lately eBay have greatly improved buyer safety.

 

I have now close to 900 positive feedbacks and 0 negative many of which involve expensive Leica gear.

 

However, if someone is willing to sell a New Nocti for 7000 (a lens which can easily be sold for perhaps 2 - 3 000 more), this is a strong warning signal to stay away. People do not normally give away large sums of money for free.

 

I have had similar experiences with eBay..

Golden rules I use are : pay using PayPal

: fund your PayPal account with a credit card which is only used for paypall.

: use a bit of common sense. If a deal looks too good to be true,it probably is. Many people have no idea of the value of what they are selling though.

 

BrianP

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Hallo,

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[Ivar B]

I have had similar experiences with eBay..

Golden rules I use are : pay using PayPal

: fund your PayPal account with a credit card which is only used for paypall.

: use a bit of common sense. If a deal looks too good to be true,it probably is. Many people have no idea of the value of what they are selling though.

 

BrianP

 

The most important element is perhaps what you mentioned last. Many have no other knowledge about Leica except that it is expensive.

 

I was once offered a Nocti 1.0/50 from what I thought could be a suspect seller and I asked if the lens was the new autofocus version. The seller confirmed that it was.

 

Simple questions like this can be quite useful.