dwbell Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1781 Posted June 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) of course it is justified. it's called an "opinion". Indeed. "Archaic" is your opinon. But the focus times recorded seem to be fact, and somewhat, sub-optimal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Hi dwbell, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
graeme_hutton Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1782 Posted June 11, 2013 Think I'll stick to my Digilux 1 - more character! G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1783 Posted June 11, 2013 By the way, I'm not the "snotty self-entitled American" from their Facebook page.... ...I'm British. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1784 Posted June 11, 2013 The Leica press release that I saw on DPReview is full of ridiculous fluff. Here are just a few that caught my eye. Made in Leica Camera’s headquarters in Germany --------------------- the range of focal lengths offered by the Leica X Vario opens up entirely new horizons for creative photography. ------------------- The Highly Anticipated ‘Mini M’ --------------- image sensor is unusually large for a camera in its class ----------- design and handling characteristics of the storied M-System, ---------- ‘Made in Germany’ --------- it sets completely new standards -------- a new, 1080p Full HD video recording function that allows photographers to record memories at a frame rate of 30 full frames per second. ---------- The Leica X Vario is the world’s first compact camera to combine a large, APS-C format, CMOS image sensor with a zoom lens. ------- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1785 Posted June 11, 2013 Leica will probably sell more of these than they do Ms. And with fewer after-care and warranty costs too. Assuming they don't run out of Loctite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HV25 Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1786 Posted June 11, 2013 Well, amazing how many comments the Leica X2 Vario has triggered, condemning an about to be released product. I think its all about positioning and expectations. Announcing the X2 Vario as a 'Mini M' is guaranteed to cause a stir amongst the enthusiasts of the M series if the X2 Vario spec don't make the new camera as a 'real' M - which is undoubtably the case. The fact that all of this comes at a time where the new 'real' M 240 is not available and the same M enthusiast are waiting for months for their order to be delivered or any kind of information from Leica or its dealers when this might be the case just makes it worse. The X2 Vario might be a good camera though I do not understand who it is really aimed at but Leica has taken the wrong approach at the wrong time to introduce it in my opinion. As a Leica fan and Marketeer I wish Leica would be better advised when it comes to the way the company serves its customers and does its marketing / product development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomv Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1787 Posted June 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hahahaha, Leica must have hired a new marketing person with a fancy education. The new X is nowhere near the M series. And probably not even close to its competition either. Big technical and marketing mistake!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
downstairs Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1788 Posted June 11, 2013 Looks nice. How do you aim it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1789 Posted June 11, 2013 Looks nice. How do you aim it? The same way as the X2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1790 Posted June 11, 2013 Hahahaha, Leica must have hired a new marketing person with a fancy education. The new X is nowhere near the M series. And probably not even close to its competition either. Big technical and marketing mistake!! I agree, it's the best marketing exercise Sony and Fuji could have dreamt about, and all for free. These will be sat on shelves for a long time, and not attract much attention now that the old hat spec has been assessed and compared. I think it is a bit of an ambitious attempt at high volume sales, to produce profits, which of course in business they have to do, thats the reason for going into business, but this is not the camera to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
downstairs Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1791 Posted June 11, 2013 The same way as the X2. I don't know the X2. Perhaps with the 'EVF 2 Electronic Viso-Flex Finder' ? Or at arms length - sunlight permitting. But not, I imagine, with the Vario viewfinder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1792 Posted June 11, 2013 I don't know the X2. Perhaps with the 'EVF 2 Electronic Viso-Flex Finder' ? Or at arms length - sunlight permitting. But not, I imagine, with the Vario viewfinder. So the big question is... will the VF-4 work on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosehead Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1793 Posted June 11, 2013 I promised myself I would not get involved in this thread, but i am finding it hard to keep myself in check, at the end of the day, this is just a camera and I am sure it will take fantastic photographs that only the end user can produce, and if they are happy with the results fair play to them. From what I have read throughout this thread is a measure of uproar from some, is the use of M in the name, and maybe rightly so; a more appropriate name would be the Giga X Might be a wee bit of snobbery as well, and this come from a guy who was willing to hand out €350 extra for a D-Lux4 just to have a red dot. Also reminds me a bit when I acquired a Leica CL I really thought I had moved up the food chain from my old Zorki, until I ran into some M users. Good luck to all, Gerry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TW528 Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1794 Posted June 11, 2013 The Leica press release that I saw on DPReview is full of ridiculous fluff. Here are just a few that caught my eye. Made in Leica Camera’s headquarters in Germany --------------------- the range of focal lengths offered by the Leica X Vario opens up entirely new horizons for creative photography. ------------------- The Highly Anticipated ‘Mini M’ --------------- image sensor is unusually large for a camera in its class ----------- design and handling characteristics of the storied M-System, ---------- ‘Made in Germany’ --------- it sets completely new standards -------- a new, 1080p Full HD video recording function that allows photographers to record memories at a frame rate of 30 full frames per second. ---------- The Leica X Vario is the world’s first compact camera to combine a large, APS-C format, CMOS image sensor with a zoom lens. ------- Leica is in their own world so I think they honestly believe this. To them it's the best camera they've ever made. If it doesn't sell well it's because of a fickle market and nothing more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Spohn Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1795 Posted June 11, 2013 Moosehead, I don't think the reaction is snobbery. In my case it is extreme disappointment. Leica teased us with a Mini M and delivered an X2 with a slow zoom lens. I can buy a Fuji X-E1 with an 18-55 lens for half the price and have a compact camera with a 16 megapixel APS C sensor and zoom lens. I doubt the files out of the new Leica will be appreciably better than the photos I shot with the X-E1 I rented for my recent trip to Denmark. I would be willing to pay the Leica premium to get a better X-E1, but this X2 with zoom will not entice me to part with my money. I might still buy an X2 because I've always wanted a Leica and I like working with the DNG files more than converting the Fuji RAW files to DNG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smb Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1796 Posted June 11, 2013 What would this camera do that the D-Lux 6 can't do? And, is it that much difference for 2k? If I have several Leica & Zeiss or Voigtlander lenses would I even consider this for 3k when for 4k more I can get the M240? Seriously, is 3k and entry level camera? Personally, I think the only thing about this camera that is relevant is that it delayed the delivery of the M240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lupico Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1797 Posted June 11, 2013 The marketing campaign for the X Vario was a bit over the top IMO. Expectations were high - the product eventually shown is nothing too special. Indeed the XE-1 with 18-55 Zoom will cost you about half the price of the X Vario. And you get image stabilization and EVF to go with it. The Fuji has a nice enough sensor too. I doubt the Leica X Vario will beat it by much if any. Still, they will probably sell enough of them because its a premium or rather luxury product. I have cancelled my early pre-order. Would have been nice if it had been full-frame with an EVF. Guess we have to wait for Sony to do this next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1798 Posted June 11, 2013 I just received a mailing from Sony. The Nex 6 with 16-50 was reduced to $800. It cost $1000 when introduced. The Nex 3N with 16-50 is only $450. This lens collapses and makes for a more compact camera than the X Vario. Isn't having relatively small size and light weight the main point here? Otherwise you could just buy a cheap APS DSLR. So why couldn't Leica at least make the lens collapsible? Sony's lens has IS and the camera body is smaller despite having a built in EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1799 Posted June 11, 2013 I'm probably one of the minority who like the X Vario camera. I recall the X1 initially had focus issues but the firmware update improved performance. The X Vario's focus will surely be improved by a firmware update too. Most of the Tyburn mob's comments within this thread seem to be based more on (i) their unfounded belief that M240 deliveries are delayed because Portugal's production resources have been directed to manufacturing & stockpiling X series cameras rather than making rangefinder cameras ... and (ii) the X Vario camera's alleged 'old hat' specification rather than its performance. Should we not wait until some in depth reviews are available before being so critical? And should we not also put the M240 vs X Vario production(s) into proper perspective before shouting, "Where's my camera!!" quite so loudly. Surely it does not take more than half a brain to realise that the M240 is a specialist relatively low volume product requiring more individual technician assembly expertise than eg the X series Leica cameras. I doubt if it's possible to suddenly increase M240 production especially as Leica is also trying to meet demand for the MM, the MP, the M7 and the S cameras. Surely some of you have seen the videos showing Leica rangefinder assembly and testing in Solms which cannot be done in Portugal. The hysteria appears to be highly contagious judging by some of the comments and some forum members show their lack of knowledge (some might say their ignorance) by stating which optics should have been used (in their expert [not] opinions) rather than considering which are comfortably possible to include. Hopefully the hysteria will calm down a bit over the next few weeks and then maybe we can take a more objective view of the camera's strengths and its place in the crowded market place. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted June 11, 2013 Share #1800 Posted June 11, 2013 I just received a mailing from Sony. The Nex 6 with 16-50 was reduced to $800. It cost $1000 when introduced. The Nex 3N with 16-50 is only $450. This lens collapses and makes for a more compact camera than the X Vario. Isn't having relatively small size and light weight the main point here? Otherwise you could just buy a cheap APS DSLR. So why couldn't Leica at least make the lens collapsible? Sony's lens has IS and the camera body is smaller despite having a built in EVF. They probably cut the price to try and maintain market share which in the crowded market place is being sought by all the dog eat dog far east camera manufacturers. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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