Yet another M240 v RX1 review

[billo101]

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Waiting to get my new M has been quite expensive. I have bought a couple of lenses, including a Leica 35mm FLE. Yesterday I bought a RX-1. I haven't opened it yet. My thinking was that I would take it with me to many places I might not take my M (whenever it arrives). I actually like that it uses a USB to charge. That way I can grab, go and charge in the car, etc.

 

I also thought that I may like to have two cameras in my bag. The RX-1 and a camera with telephoto. I definitely want the M for my Noctilux, The soft bokeh can't be beat. I may by the Olympus EP-5 so I can turn my 135 3.4 into an iS 270 lens.

 

Can anyone using the RX-1 comment on the portrait bokeh? I know that f2 35mm limits the natural bokeh. However, you can focus the RX-1 much closer. At close in range, the bokeh seems impressive.

 

Thoughts? Should I open the box and keep or return?

 

P.S. the Sony store has a promotion taking 15% off the RX-1 if you bought the EVF. Thus, the EVF was free. I figured I should snap the deal up and can return unopened later if I change my mind.

 

Open the box, you can use RX1 for color pics and buy M Monochrom for BW.

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[alexander]

Sony RX1 v Leica M 240 | Tobinators

 

there is no question! Leica is the Camera to choose!!!

[Appmax]

Open the box, you can use RX1 for color pics and buy M Monochrom for BW.

 

Great idea.

[douglasf13]

I just ordered an RX1 a couple of days ago, since I was only shooting a 35mm on my M9, anyways.

 

Of course, shooting a camera like this is quite a different experience than using my M9, but I've had experience with NEX cameras in the past, so I think I'll be ok with it.

 

As far as IQ is concerned, this sensor is the best out there (unless you want more megapixels in the D800,) and the Zeiss 35/2 is also testing to be outstanding. It is apparently sharper across the frame than my 35 Cron ASPH, although this flatness of field appears to be giving a bit more apparent depth of field, similar to the new 50 Cron AA. Any differences in the look of the RX1 and M240 sensor could surely be mitigated by slight adjustments in LR.

 

There is certainly a large difference in shooting method between an EVF based camera and a rangefinder, and a fixed 35mm lens would be limiting to many, but, if you can deal with these factors, the RX1 looks excellent, especially considering the camera costs less than a new 35/2 ASPH alone. IQ certainly wouldn't be a main selling point of the M240+35/2 ASPH over the RX1, that's for sure, unless you're just absolutely in love with the 35/2 ASPH's rendering, which I find to be simply ok. I'll see how it goes with the RX1.

[1JB]

I just ordered an RX1 a couple of days ago, since I was only shooting a 35mm on my M9, anyways.

 

Of course, shooting a camera like this is quite a different experience than using my M9, but I've had experience with NEX cameras in the past, so I think I'll be ok with it.

 

As far as IQ is concerned, this sensor is the best out there (unless you want more megapixels in the D800,) and the Zeiss 35/2 is also testing to be outstanding. It is apparently sharper across the frame than my 35 Cron ASPH, although this flatness of field appears to be giving a bit more apparent depth of field, similar to the new 50 Cron AA. Any differences in the look of the RX1 and M240 sensor could surely be mitigated by slight adjustments in LR.

 

There is certainly a large difference in shooting method between an EVF based camera and a rangefinder, and a fixed 35mm lens would be limiting to many, but, if you can deal with these factors, the RX1 looks excellent, especially considering the camera costs less than a new 35/2 ASPH alone. IQ certainly wouldn't be a main selling point of the M240+35/2 ASPH over the RX1, that's for sure, unless you're just absolutely in love with the 35/2 ASPH's rendering, which I find to be simply ok. I'll see how it goes with the RX1.

 

Please post your thoughts on the RX1. I've reached the point where I think it's time to get what I can for my M9, 35 cron and 50 lux and move to the RX1.

[jaapv]

Well, for one thing you'll lose out on the lenses... There is absolutely nothing in the 50 mm that renders like the Summilux 50 asph ( or pre-asph for that matter). Sensor quality as long as it is above a certain -presently incredibly high for many cameras- level is of no importance to me, it will be "better"in a few years anyway. It is the lenses that count for the image.

[Ecaton]

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Please post your thoughts on the RX1. I've reached the point where I think it's time to get what I can for my M9, 35 cron and 50 lux and move to the RX1.

 

Keep the M9 and the 50 Summilux and use the RX1 as the 35mm, the backup, the low light solution. They make a great travel combo.

[jaapv]

Exactly. The RX1 is an excellent camera, a great point and shoot with an perfect sensor and lens. So it is probably the best choice for the function of a P&S i.e. carry-anywhere and backup despite its high price, but it cannot replace a system camera, be it a rangefinder, EVIL or DSLR system.

A drawback is of course that in a few years time, when the next top of the heap camera comes along, the tendency will be to chuck it in the bin, including its lens.

[1JB]

Exactly. The RX1 is an excellent camera, a great point and shoot with an perfect sensor and lens. So it is probably the best choice for the function of a P&S i.e. carry-anywhere and backup despite its high price, but it cannot replace a system camera, be it a rangefinder, EVIL or DSLR system.

A drawback is of course that in a few years time, when the next top of the heap camera comes along, the tendency will be to chuck it in the bin, including its lens.

 

I just don't see myself with Leica long term. I have no interest in the M which puts any upgrade at least 4 years out. I only use a 50 and 35 so a fixed 35 is not of concern to me considering the size and quality of the sensor and lens. My inclination is to get my money out now rather than worry about a sensor failure or other major issue and whether Leica has the means to repair it at a reasonable cost. I love the M9 but it's a lot of money tied up in dated camera that I am unlikely to ever upgrade. I am so disappointed with the M that I seem to have soured completely on a future with Leica.

[jaapv]

Leica has never charged of the repair of a failed sensor afaik - As for the M - we'll have to agree to differ - I find it a quite exciting development after the M9.

For me, the RX1 is a kind if camera I have absolutely no interest in owning. I already have an X1 for the kind of thing I would need it for, and a P&S is not my cup of tea for serious shooting. I hope your experience will be different.

One problem with the RX1 is that in a few years time it will be far more dated in its class than the M9 will ever be - for RF adepts even the M8 is a camera that they can happily use without worrying about technology. But it takes a different mindset.

[norm_snyder]

I agree--mindset, indeed. The experience of using a DSLR or the rear display [as on a P&S] to compose is completely different than using the aerial image and frameline. On the latter, everything is in focus, I know what I've focused on with the rangefinder patch, and I can concentrate on how the elements work together, on light and dark elements, light and shade, postive and negative space--call them what you will.

 

While my M9 was back at the mother ship this month, I used the Canon DSLR again, and while the 85mm L and 35mm L lenses produce sometimes spectacular results, and the files are great, they just are different than what I can accomplish with a 75mm Summicron on one body and a 35 on another. I have been using the M cameras for some decades, now, and this is the way I do my own best [and most satisfying--for me] work.

[mkrzyzow]

I just ordered an RX1 a couple of days ago, since I was only shooting a 35mm on my M9, anyways.

 

Of course, shooting a camera like this is quite a different experience than using my M9, but I've had experience with NEX cameras in the past, so I think I'll be ok with it.

 

As far as IQ is concerned, this sensor is the best out there (unless you want more megapixels in the D800,) and the Zeiss 35/2 is also testing to be outstanding. It is apparently sharper across the frame than my 35 Cron ASPH, although this flatness of field appears to be giving a bit more apparent depth of field, similar to the new 50 Cron AA. Any differences in the look of the RX1 and M240 sensor could surely be mitigated by slight adjustments in LR.

 

There is certainly a large difference in shooting method between an EVF based camera and a rangefinder, and a fixed 35mm lens would be limiting to many, but, if you can deal with these factors, the RX1 looks excellent, especially considering the camera costs less than a new 35/2 ASPH alone. IQ certainly wouldn't be a main selling point of the M240+35/2 ASPH over the RX1, that's for sure, unless you're just absolutely in love with the 35/2 ASPH's rendering, which I find to be simply ok. I'll see how it goes with the RX1.

 

Good purchase. My main camera remains the M9 and I am a 50 shooter primarily, but I had the RX1 out at Big Sur this weekend -- excellent color and dynamic range. I still find the M9 IQ to be more beautiful at base ISO -- more life-like, less flat -- but the RX1 IQ is attractive in its own right, kind of like the A900 look on steroids, in a much smaller camera. For me it is basically a much more solid and versatile X1, as much as I liked the rendering of that camera's lens.

[algrove]

No, I am not taking it as final proof, more like an indication of fundamental differences between the two cameras. AF vs. MF focusing would be a major area to evaluate. I agree this review is cursory.

 

One can MF the RX1 too. Shooting spot helps fine tune focusing point.

[douglasf13]

I'm a single prime shooter, whether it be with an M or any other camera, so using a single 35mm lens on the RX1 is not a problem for me.

 

After shooting the RX1 for a bit, I'm really impressed. There's really nothing about the camera that screams "p&s." You have 3 viewing options, LCD, EVF and OVF, and I'm actually finding my Voigtlander OVF to be my favorite option. AF works a lot better with the OVF than I thought it would, and manual focus works really great with the EVF/LCD. The build of this camera is very solid and positive, and things are relatively well placed.

 

As far as output, at least with my post processing routine, I'm definitely not seeing anything that would force me to pick the M9 at low ISO, and it isn't even close at high ISO. Like I mentioned above, this Zeiss is more flat field, a little like the 50 AA, and it does render a bit differently than the 35/2 ASPH, so that just comes down to taste. Overall, I'd pick the RX1's output over my M9+35/2 ASPH. The m240 would likely be a tougher call, but I think the RX1 probably bests, or certainly equals, the IQ of any digital, color M with any Leica 35mm lens, IMO. It is fantastic.

 

To be honest, if you can deal with one lens and no rangefinder, I think the RX1 is a no brainer. If you need more lenses and a rangefinder, the digital M cameras are the best, and only, game in town. It's really as simple as that, and both setups are great.

 

p.s. jaapv makes a good point about the RX1 becoming outdated, but the cost is relatively peanuts, compared to an M and 35/2, so I don't think it matters. I can surely expect 3-5 years out of this camera, at the least.

[jaapv]

Peanuts? Yours must be hand-delivered by Jimmy Carter himself. I may be a Leica customer, but 3100 Euro still represents serious money to me - especially for a point and shoot. It really indicates the pricing in case Sony would ever build a Leica clone. It would be more expensive than the original...

[mkrzyzow]

Yeah my preference for the M9 at base ISO is an aesthetic judgment and not a "horsepower" judgment (which would favor the RX1) and is probably due to the sensor/toppings, not the fantastic lens on the RX1. Over time I have found that the sensors/toppings that put irritating halos around streetlights at night are the same ones that yield an image that is a bit more flat and less life-like, and the worse the halos the flatter the images generally -- I think this may be due to sensor/toppings. In this regard, the RX1 is quite a bit better than many CMOS+AA mirrorless combos I have used in the past. The M9 is perfect. The M240 pictures I have seen so far leave me a bit puzzled, but I will have one soon and am hopeful it can equal the M9; on "horsepower" it seems to exceed it.

 

As far as lens rendering style, I think the RX1 lens is great. Particularly at mid-range (though it is also strong at infinity). I've used most of the current Leica M and ZM 35s, and prefer the 35 Summarit above all (and like the ASPH Summicron least of all), but the RX1 is really quite nice.

 

Overall, I think the RX1 is fantastic and whatever "category" we want to put it in, it really is a small, convenient way to generate images with tremendous IQ.

[douglasf13]

Peanuts? Yours must be hand-delivered by Jimmy Carter himself. I may be a Leica customer, but 3100 Euro still represents serious money to me - especially for a point and shoot. It really indicates the pricing in case Sony would ever build a Leica clone. It would be more expensive than the original...

 

Sorry, I was referring to the US price of $2800. I can't speak to the price in other countries. FWIW, I bought mine from the Amazon Warehouse as an open box deal for only $2165.

 

A brand new M240 and 35/2 ASPH will run just over $10K here in the US, which is a considerable price difference vs. the RX1's price of $2800. If you bought a new M9 and 35/2 ASPH a couple of years ago, you'd be loosing around $4K on that combo, should you sell them today, and that's $1200 more than the entire cost of the RX1. Heck, even the X2 is $2K.

 

So, yes, I do think that the RX1's cost is relatively peanuts compared to Leica M prices.

[jaapv]

Not over here---

 

 

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[douglasf13]

Not over here---

 

 

 

 

[ATTACH]379559[/ATTACH]

 

Yikes, that's pretty bad. How much does an M240 + 35/2 ASPH cost over there?

[jedi996sps]

I have seen the RX1 advertised in the UK on the internet for under £2K